musculata shoulder flaps

[PhilusEstilius]

[attachment=6966]primaport31Medium.jpg[/attachment]
When searching for rear view pictures of the Prima Porta cuirass I discovered that there is reference to the figure in the quadriga chariot as being Sol, however when we look at this figure it would appear very much to be a female in a long dress which surely cannot be correct information with regard to it being Sol.

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

I think the shoulder flaps are sometimes merely extensions of the backplate as I think is shown in the photo of the famous Germanicus statue below:



Also, IIRC, the shoulder flaps of Philip II's armor were also simple extensions of the backplate.

~ Theo

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Indeed!

[PhilusEstilius]

I think that after all the searching for rear views of the prima porta type hinges it might well be safe to assume that these hinges are of the same size at the rear and are fixed to the backplate of the armour.

Indeed as Theo has shown with the Germanicus statue and also the way I have created a cuirass with the shoulder doublings as part of the backplate, this may well have been yet another method used by craftsmen in the construction.

There are reproductions being made for the re-enactment world that show the shoulder doublings riveted to the backplates of armour both in metal and leather, therefore I must ask all who use this method to bring forward their evidence for this idea of production.

[koechlyruestow]

Brian Stobbs wrote:

I discovered that there is reference to the figure in the quadriga chariot as being Sol, however when we look at this figure it would appear very much to be a female in a long dress which surely cannot be correct information with regard to it being Sol.

You are right, it is Luna (she is coming up from the left, while Sol always comes up from the right).

[PhilusEstilius]

eduard.

I do not think it is the goddess Diana (moon goddess) for in most depictions she is in a Biga and not quadriga it looks very much to me to be Victory.

[MartinWard]

Hi guys

Just to add my comments, my musculata has the shoulder 'doublings' rivetted to the back place, they are thick leather suitably stiff which are then drawn over to the front to join the breast plate with tie downs, similar to linothorax attachments, if i can figure out how to do it i will post a pic

martin

[koechlyruestow]

Do you also know of a Roman example that was the inspiration for your musculata shoulder flaps?

[trulyyv51honey93VT]

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[MartinWard]

Actually no, i was doing it through practical reasoning....romans liked rivitts lol. it seemed an ideal way of attaching a flexible but strong join and its very easy to put on unaided. the back plate sits on your shoulders whilst you marry up the chest plate and attach the 'flaps', you then can ( in my case ) join the side fastenings by pushing leather tabs over studs on both back and chest plate, my reasoning for this is i wanted to portray a marine centurion and as a marine should you fall overboard it would be a quick and easy way of ditching the armour underwater. i hasten to add that i havent got a trireme, bireme, river patrol boat or a dingy lol, though if any one is giving one away.......... lol


martin

[koechlyruestow]

I have been peeking at the back-sides of emperor statues in museums, having as a consequence an altercation with a warden in Amsterdam, and I have been looking at pictures on the internet and in books. My conclusion:
Sorry Alexander, sorry Martin, but I could not find any shoulderflap on a backplate. I have to agree with Brian and Theo, it seems these flaps did not extend to the shoulderblade. They seem to have been either extensions of the backplate, or decoration of the front plate.

[Vitruvius]

Ave,y'all,
Just a couple of thoughts: A.) If one wishes that "dreaded" leather musculata, but want the shininess of metal.... electroplate the critter. or gold or silver leaf it as (and I KNOW I'm going to make Dan Howard and others mad with THIS suggestion) the research is starting to show that the "Bagdad Battery" might well have been feasible. and B I recomment that you check with the man I affectionately refer to as "The Dean of Musculatas", Travis Clarke for more info. I look forward to any and all replies.
Salve,
Vitruvius.........aka Larry Mager

P,S. How did Caracalla have his Cloth "Breastplate" made silver looking?

[richard robinson]

There have been Roman finds of womens silk garments that had been unpicked completely so that silver thread could be woven into it. One possibility of "silvering" a fabric? (Recalling a timeteam episode)

Regards
Richard

[Vitruvius]

Ave,yall,
Hey there Richard, Antonia (Jaqui) likes your idea re:Caracalla.........after all, as Imperator, he could afford to have a silver cloth musculata. She also wanted me to share with you all, that the Romans COULD have electro-plated cloth and leather using "The Bagdad Battery" in SERIES, (at least 4 units in series). Anythying one wished to be electro-plated had to be impregnated with some metal salts.
I might just have a leather musculata electro-plated.....
Salve, y'all
Vitruvius.................aka Larry Mager