Sarmatian Armour

[Folkert van Wijk]

Although we might get a bit of an overkill on Sarmatian topics I thought I start a new one dedicated to Armour.

I have been working on a combined armor using a variety of scales from Simonenkos book...
As you might notice I gave it a bit of an Han twist...
On the second thought I realised that my way of attaching the square plates would not be te strongest I am working on a second design. having also the square scales overlap as on the Chinees teragota warriors..

[koechlyruestow]

I have only once worn a mail shirt, and it was not very long, so I am not much of an expert. But what I wanted to know is, do you need the four splits? In fact, do you need any split?

[Folkert van Wijk]

It's for mounted warriors, and I made it 100 cm long. So I think splits would be preferable...
I am not shure how much, but sinds I have the idea that they wanted their upper legs covered als wel so I figured four splits would work.

But I'm no expert, and just trying to figure trying out things..

[Michael Kerr]

Folkert wrote:

Although we might get a bit of an overkill on Sarmatian topics I thought I start a new one dedicated to Armour.

We can never get enough Sarmatian topics as far as I am concerned Folkert. I don't know much about horses, I am not a re-enactor or collector but for some reason I am drawn to this remarkable people. Life on the steppes as a pastoralist would not have been easy protecting families, horses, cattle and sheep from constant raids but although the Romans documented their martial skills I often wonder what animal husbandry skills were passed on about sheep and cattle and even dog breeds for guarding their herds like the Sarmatian Mastiff who were huge dogs originating in Central Asia. Leatherworking, horse gear like saddles and weapons manufacturing etc. Anyway I digress from armour and weapons. Enjoying the discussions and the images. Keep it up.
PS: I was watching a documentary on Mongolia where a local herdsman was herding horses with a Uurga or lasso-pole. He was riding at speed and had both hands on his lasso-pole and it reminded me of the two handed Sarmatian riding stance and I found this book on Amazon called "Nomads South Siberia: The Pastoral Economies of Tuva" where the author asserts that the lasso-pole was used by Sarmatians and Huns when separating mares from the herd and I was thinking that herding horses this way with both hands would be good training for holding a Kontus even though it's a lot lighter. Any thoughts. I googled Mongolian Pole-Lasso pics and some good pics come up (National Geographic" but a lot are copyrighted.

Regards
Michael Kerr

[koechlyruestow]

Perhaps you will find JCN Coulston's "Later Roman armour, 3rd-6th centuries AD interesting, in The Journal of Roman Equipment Studies I 1990. Later Roman armour is very much like Sarmatian armour, smock-like, knee-length hauberks of mail or what seems to be scale armour (but it could also be lamellar armour with the scales overlapping downward). The knee-lenght hauberks, though used by the cavalry, usually seem to have no split whatsoever!

About the Sarmatians themselves, a more accessible text (if you read German) is A.V. Simonenko's “Bewaffnung und Kriegswesen der Sarmaten und späten Skythen in nördlichen Schwartzmeergebiet” in Eurasia Antiqua 7 2001, because I understand the English summary in his more popular book mentioned elsewere is rather confusing. Interestingly, it contains the description and picture of a suit of armour of which, unlike in your suit, the shoulders are made of mail and the torso of rather large plates, rather like the more recent Muslim mail-and-plates type of armour usually keeps the shoulders only covered with mail.

Depictions of Sarmatian, Roman and later Islamic mail hauberks have a somewhat "wasp-waisted" look, unlike the European long hauberks of the 12th century CE, shown with visible paunches. I never thought about that until I saw myself in the mirror in mail hauberk after putting on a sword belt. I then noticed the same in Junkelmann's (Die Reiter Roms) reconstructions of mail cuirasses (and he notices it himself): we all had paunches! This is caused by the "straight" cut that can also be seen on your cad drawing. After seeing a reconstruction of an extremely wasp-waisted German mail hauberk from the 14th century (when the wasp-waist was in fashion in Europe) I started to suspect that the Sarmatian knee-length hauberk perhaps tapered towards the waist and then flared out again like a coffee-filter to achieve the wasp-waisted look (just like the tunics and caftans found in Pazyrik and elsewere). That could perhaps explain why splits are not shown, plenty of room for legs clenching a saddle. Would have been a nuisance climbing on a horned saddle though.

[Folkert van Wijk]

Thanks you Eduard, I look into these books.
Hopefully there's a PDF somewhere in the web...

You definatly have point about the wasp waisted look.
I have made Skythian clothing using actual finds and noticed the same narrower waist.
Where most cultures at the time made clothing made up of squares without waisting any fabric, the nomadic eastern horsemen, tailerd their cloths...

This indeed must have something to do with the space needed while on horseback...

[Sutoris]

Thanks Eduard for the information
the link for the Simonenko File;
http://www.archaeology.ru/Download/Symon...ffnung.pdf

[Alanus]

Sutoris,
Thanks for the German-language link to Simonenko.

And to Eduard,

Depictions of Sarmatian, Roman and later Islamic mail hauberks have a somewhat "wasp-waisted" look....I then noticed the same in Junkelmann's (Die Reiter Roms) reconstructions of mail cuirasses (and he notices it himself): we all had paunches! This is caused by the "straight" cut that can also be seen on your cad drawing. After seeing a reconstruction of an extremely wasp-waisted German mail hauberk from the 14th century (when the wasp-waist was in fashion in Europe) I started to suspect that the Sarmatian knee-length hauberk perhaps tapered towards the waist and then flared out again like a coffee-filter to achieve the wasp-waisted look (just like the tunics and caftans found in Pazyrik and elsewere)....

Yes! Yes! Yes!
This explains why I look like a fat office-worker when I'm really only 155 pounds. The Sarmatians, and the Saka/Massagetae before them, TAILORED their clothing and armor. Like Michael says, I'm fascinated by a culture that was so "with it," so "on the money," yet living in a world of "copycats." No wonder we are finding more Sarmatian reenactors on RAT. ;-)

PS: no offense intended to office-workers in general. :whistle:

[koechlyruestow]

Folkert van Wijk wrote:

Where most cultures at the time made clothing made up of squares without waisting any fabric, the nomadic eastern horsemen, tailerd their cloths...

This indeed must have something to do with the space needed while on horseback...

I suspect it has to do with the influence of a tradition of making clothes from animal hides. A panel is the most economic design for a woven piece of dress (and it is also practical and comfortable in a warm environment), but animal hides invite the designer to adapt the shapes of the animal to the shape of a human wearer (and it was much more practical and comfortable in a cold environment). Even after producing whool in great quantities and adopting woven clothing, the inhabitants of the steppebelt remained under the influence of the much older (ice-age) influence of animal hide fashion of anoraks and overalls. So the Indo-European, chariot born invaders from Southern Russia introduced sleeves, and the Scythian invaders from Kazachstan introduced trousers into the Middle East.

By the way guys, kudo's to you, your receptiveness to this idea amazes me. I suggested the idea of a waisted hauberk to two people I knew, reenactors and one of them making his own mail, but they reacted with derision and irritation. A pity, because I so much wanted the mailmaker to try out such a design ...

[Dan Howard]

A lot of medieval mail was very carefully tailored to the individual. Modern reconstructions don't look much like the originals - many are just tubes with sleeves. I have no problem believing that Sarmatian mail could be just as carefully tailored - but it depends on how they were donned. A hauberk needs some slack if it was donned by slipping it over the head like a sweater (the waist can't be much narrower than the chest). If it were more closely tailored then it needs to open up at the back or front and be fastened with laces/straps/hooks.

Alternatively you could have "banding" at the abdomen - leather thongs threaded through some of the rows and pulled tight. But this will reduce the flexibility. Usually you see banding on parts of the body that don't need flexibility such as the neck and chest, not the abdomen.

Keep in mind that the best hauberks used different links and weaves to cover different parts of the body. The mail would be heavier and denser over more vulnerable places and lighter over places that required more flexibility or were less susceptible to injury.

This might help
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_mail.html

[Michael Kerr]

Hi, in regards to lamellar armour here is a link to a PDF on how to harden leather plates to make lamellar armour. Article starts on Page 16.
http://www.nvg.org.au/documents/vv/vv_issue_60.pdf

Regards
Michael Kerr

[Folkert van Wijk]

Using the pattern of a Scythian shirt from the Altai region I tailord the mail...

[Alanus]

Everyone,

Folkert's "work in progress" armor just happens to hit the subject I was discussing with a tyro Sarmatian reenactor last night. I showed him the battle scenes in Woo's film, Red Cliff, to show him chain-mail with plates attached to it. That's what Folkert is doing, I think.

And I like the tailored look of it. mile:

Evidently, there has been a "backlash" from the "regulars" (Roman kit-wearers), but I believe we have defined a problem that has been ignored-- the wearing of "bag suit" armor. :whistle:

[koechlyruestow]

Folkert, that looks great.

Having said that, I still have some objections. Those panels and the "Egyptian" collar made from scale armour I have seen on many reenactors armour, is it something you can buy on the internet? I find them a bit Hollywood or Angus McBride, not very authentic looking, if you do not mind my saying so. But perhaps it is based om some archaeological finds, I do not know. I would insert the scales / lamellae into the hauberk like a kind of corselet, leaving the shoulders and legs protected with the more flexible mail, like the armour described and reconstructed in Simonenko's article. And I am sure the Sarmatians, also being archers, had standing collars to protect the neck (they do not seem to have known aventails or coifs), mail threaded trough with leather thongs like Dan Howard describes it, because the neck is especially vulnerable to a stray arrow.

[Alanus]

Hello, all

And I am sure the Sarmatians, also being archers, had standing collars to protect the neck (they do not seem to have known aventails or coifs), mail threaded trough with leather thongs like Dan Howard describes it, because the neck is especially vulnerable to a stray arrow.

Leather aventails are on Roxolani helmets depicted on Trajan's Column. And I would think they were used as neck protection by other materials such as scale and chain-mail. Eduard has pointed out that neck protection was important, not just for stray arrows, but also against the swipe of a sword. High leather collars are shown on the Orlat Placque. I notice one helmet is perhaps constructed of lamellar, like we see in later Magyar and Cuman helmets. Or it is made of sewn scales, like the Korean styles. Armor and helmet styles varied greatly... and I think it was a product of "individualism," just like the custom tailoring we are discussing.



[attachment=6673]OrlatBeltPlaquefromSogdiana-22.jpg[/attachment]

Here are Orlat Plaque helmets and collars. Notice the 2 helmets at the top of the scene. All of these warriors are wearing a high collar, most likely leather but possibly supported by plates or splints, and one collar appears to be covered with scales..