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What attracts you to Late Rome?
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Tim post=332439 Wrote:Also, one aspect in this that is often overlooked is people's willingness to participate in the system.

The roman state had lost its people; every important segment of the population. . . . . The interesting question about the late empire is, when did this process start and why? How could a state abolish itself. And why did it not happen in the East?

Long process (which in my armchair opinion began with the fall of the republic), but in the end, the state screwed over every segment of the population. The middle class was eliminated due to slave trade, tax exemptions for the extremely wealthy, and a confiscatory tax policy. The "local elites" went from being men of honor and distinction to involuntary tax collectors that had no real power and were universally despised. Once universal citizenship was declared, what was the point of voluntarily serving in the legions? The emperors ignored Rome itself (not without good reason) and became autocrats, abolished the "old gods", so no wonder the ancestral senate lost interest.

And then there is the basic truth that "all politics are local." The average landowner was being eliminated by tax policy and forced conscription. The army that was supposed to be "protecting" the frontiers, more often than not, took tax payments "in kind" (i.e. stole property) from civilians. This same army then went off and fought repeated wars against other romans while allowing barbarians to cross the frontiers and raid the provinces. Yes, maybe the army would return in a year or so to try and kick out the barbarians, but were the locals any better off? Those troops that were stationed in the frontier provinces often weren't paid and commanders couldn't get the cooperation of civilian officials, so no wonder there were so many "usurpations."

Local elites bought into the roman "system" because, at first, it provided stability, protection, and means of distinction, and offered the promise of a better standard of living. In the end, there were no real benefits to the Roman "state". It couldn't protect its citizens. It stopped building anything. It was more concerned with fighting civil wars than barbarian invaders. All it did was take what little wealth remained and transferred it to the army and the far-off emperor of the month.
There are some who call me ......... Tim?
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Messages In This Thread
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-26-2013, 09:45 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tarbicus - 02-26-2013, 09:57 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-26-2013, 10:13 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Epictetus - 02-26-2013, 10:23 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-26-2013, 10:49 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-26-2013, 11:35 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Caballo - 02-26-2013, 11:42 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-27-2013, 01:34 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-27-2013, 01:40 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-27-2013, 01:44 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-27-2013, 02:04 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-27-2013, 02:17 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by eduard - 02-27-2013, 02:28 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-27-2013, 02:32 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-27-2013, 02:41 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-27-2013, 03:08 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Nathan Ross - 02-27-2013, 03:21 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-27-2013, 03:29 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-27-2013, 03:45 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by foojer - 02-27-2013, 10:07 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Jack Jones - 02-27-2013, 12:43 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 02-27-2013, 07:43 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 02-27-2013, 07:50 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-27-2013, 07:51 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 02-27-2013, 07:52 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Nathan Ross - 02-27-2013, 09:25 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Lyceum - 02-27-2013, 09:36 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-27-2013, 09:44 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 02-27-2013, 10:40 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-28-2013, 01:45 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Q Rutilius - 02-28-2013, 06:00 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-28-2013, 12:55 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 02-28-2013, 06:03 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 02-28-2013, 07:12 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 02-28-2013, 07:25 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 02-28-2013, 08:54 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 02-28-2013, 08:57 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Lyceum - 02-28-2013, 09:00 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 02-28-2013, 09:01 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-28-2013, 10:44 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 02-28-2013, 10:55 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 02-28-2013, 11:57 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-01-2013, 02:35 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alexand96 - 03-01-2013, 03:14 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-01-2013, 03:34 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Nathan Ross - 03-01-2013, 05:03 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-01-2013, 09:19 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-01-2013, 09:23 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-01-2013, 09:30 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-01-2013, 09:33 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-02-2013, 07:15 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-03-2013, 07:17 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 03-03-2013, 07:42 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-03-2013, 07:47 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-03-2013, 07:54 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Renatus - 03-04-2013, 03:31 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-04-2013, 04:03 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-04-2013, 04:03 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Nathan Ross - 03-04-2013, 04:44 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Virilis - 03-04-2013, 06:42 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-04-2013, 07:07 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-04-2013, 07:22 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-04-2013, 07:51 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-04-2013, 10:07 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-04-2013, 11:14 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Mithras - 03-04-2013, 11:17 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-04-2013, 11:24 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Conal - 03-05-2013, 02:40 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-05-2013, 03:10 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by sonic - 03-05-2013, 06:27 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-05-2013, 06:59 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Medicus matt - 03-05-2013, 08:15 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-06-2013, 12:27 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-06-2013, 02:46 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim - 03-06-2013, 04:00 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-06-2013, 04:36 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-06-2013, 06:41 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-08-2013, 06:44 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Milo Cross - 03-08-2013, 08:08 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-09-2013, 03:26 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-09-2013, 06:33 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-10-2013, 04:29 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-11-2013, 03:30 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-11-2013, 04:18 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Tim Donovan - 03-14-2013, 04:58 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Caballo - 03-14-2013, 08:19 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Gesith - 03-14-2013, 09:23 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Renatus - 03-14-2013, 10:31 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-16-2013, 05:05 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Frank - 03-16-2013, 02:43 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-16-2013, 07:49 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-16-2013, 11:23 PM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-17-2013, 12:33 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-17-2013, 05:26 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-18-2013, 03:15 AM
What attracts you to Late Rome? - by Alanus - 03-18-2013, 09:16 PM

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