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Late Roman helmets, Byzantine
#16
Quote:I've never seen that image before! (Tours/Ashburnham )
Interesting helmet and crest images.
I wonder if the use of iron/silver vs bronze is to depict different sides in a civil war scenario?

There is always the possibility that there are some aspects borrowed from contemporary reality but in this case biblical crossing of the red sea is depicted and Roman soldiers represents those of Egypt.
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#17
Quote:Virilis: the aforementioned and shown cross-section did not disappear. We have numerous finds in the Miks book, for example a late 4th century from modern-day Hungary. I have a replica coming up for Marle.

There were a lot of helmets probably made from only iron. AFAIK the fabricas produced 60% of the helmets with a silver layer. That means 40% with no silver.

From the handles, maybe the top right is suited for a 5th century impression. Also, the lamellars would be alright for maybe a 6th century soldier.

Hi Mark! Did I understand correctly, that you claim that spathas with blades of diamond cross-section existed beyond third century AD? I have not been able to find any examples and would appreciate that you will show some examples from Miks`s book. I have not been able to use the book lately and would appreciate the code numebers of such examples to check them out. :wink:
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#18
Quote:
Mark George Little post=331283 Wrote:Virilis: the aforementioned and shown cross-section did not disappear. We have numerous finds in the Miks book, for example a late 4th century from modern-day Hungary. I have a replica coming up for Marle.

There were a lot of helmets probably made from only iron. AFAIK the fabricas produced 60% of the helmets with a silver layer. That means 40% with no silver.

From the handles, maybe the top right is suited for a 5th century impression. Also, the lamellars would be alright for maybe a 6th century soldier.

Hi Mark! Did I understand correctly, that you claim that spathas with blades of diamond cross-section existed beyond third century AD? I have not been able to find any examples and would appreciate that you will show some examples from Miks`s book. I have not been able to use the book lately and would appreciate the code numebers of such examples to check them out. :wink:

Hi there!

A146,65 blade starts with a diamond, then transforms into hexagonal. It's from D1.
A763 from Visegrád (currently getting a replica of this), it's from D1-D2.
A732, from D2? .
A221 from C3-D1.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#19
Thanks Mark, will check them out!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#20
Hi Mark, it seems that A763 is the strongest candidate for a late roman spatha with a diamond cross section / rautenförmig blade. Thanks for the info, it might not be the most typical blade shape in a late roman context but it certainly is there. Beautiful blade and a good choice for a reconstruction! The other candidates don't have such a pronounced shape as this example. May I ask what kind of handle you are planning to have?

Perhaps I should open a new thread called "the hunt for a perfect 4th century AD spatha? Wink
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#21
Virilis!

I believe that many of the later lenticular cross-sections were once diamond ones. The disappearing diamond section-theory (although the examined swords do show us this, they could be corroded, and a large portion of the blades are in too bad shape to measure the cross section) makes no sense to me.

There were gladii, which were diamond, then spathae with diamond, then an unexplainable gap until the frankish times, then again diamond section until the rise of late renaissance/early modern cutting swords.

For handle, I will use a simple Nydam-type (Vortafel D, handle nr. 24.). It will be made from oak I presume. I haven't decided on the properties of the scabbard fully, but with the help of our archaeologist from the Hungarian National Museum, I have a few sketches in mind.


(And yes, I think we should open a new thread in hunt for the perfect ones Big Grin )
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#22
Interestings thoughts.

Byronn, the scene depicted is the drowing of Pharaoh's army after the crossing of the red sea by Moïse Smile
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
[Image: 955d308995.jpg]
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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#23
Quote: Moïse Smile
Moses for English readers. ;-)
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#24
Ahhh, ok, thanks! Another case of putting historical people in the kit of your day!
Jesus Christ Superstar style! Wink
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#25
Hi all, I've a question about some avar/ byzantine helmets and hope that this is the right topic for my concern.

I searched but couldn't find anything about the Spannfederhelme/ Lamellenhelme from Stara Zagora and Iatrus. As far as I know the first is only mentioned and a picture is shown in the catalouge "Byzanz - Pracht und Alltag" from 2010. The second I only know from the Ancient Warfare-magazine vol. IV issue 3 "Justinians fireman: Belisarius and the Byzantine empire".

I'm looking forward there is maybe anyone in this forum who can help me find some informations or articles about this helmets.

Greetings
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#26
I am not an expert on this but there are two recent studies on lamellar helmets (2012) which may be of relevance and which are both available for download on the internet:

One is by Damien Glad: The Empire’s influence on the barbarian elites from the Pontic region to the Rhine (5th-7th centuries): A case study of lamellar weapons and segmental helmet. (In: Vujadin Ivanišević & Michel KazanskiThe Pontic-Danubian Realm in the Period of the Great Migration, 2012). The other is by Oleg Radjush (it is in Russian but with nice pictures)

Both are available for download from academia.edu (registration is free).
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#27
Are there any more illustrations from the Ashburnham/Tours Pentateuch manuscript?

Druzhina
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#28
Quote:Are there any more illustrations from the Ashburnham/Tours Pentateuch manuscript?

Druzhina

I believe you could find all manuscript folios somewhere on the internet.I do,but now I don't know where I got it from or where I have it :oops: .Maybe there's possibility to see it on the internet pages of National Library of France in Paris,where original is preserved?But I think the Crossing of the red sea is the only scene in preserved parts that contains depictions of armoured soldiers.
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#29
Thanks

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers
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#30
Fourth century A.D .helmets exhibition at Coliseum.
[Image: desktop26.th.jpg]
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
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