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Quote:what would the end user cost for that be? As my funds are chronically limited, I couldn't pay vast sums for a paper subscription straight off.
For an offset litho book (like old JRMES volumes) you'd probably be looking at around $45/€35/£30 if there were 200 takers for that dead-tree version (and that would include free digital access). Like you, I couldn't afford that at the moment; I'm cuttings subscriptions, not adding to them.
Quote:Is $10 a year a realistic figure? That sounds extremely reasonably, especially for a consistently interesting journal such as JRMES.
That is just a notional figure and would be digital only.
Let's do some sums: there are supposedly 5,000+ RAT members. If only 10% paid $10 a year, that would generate enough money to fund digital production and have something over to provide grants for scholarships, travel bursaries to ROMECs for those who can't afford to go to them (most of us, these days), and other goodies like publishing catalogues of finds as monographs. This is the basis of my original proposal for a society or association as the backbone for the journal and ROMEC. More sums: if only 5% of RAT members wanted a paper copy of JRMES, that would be enough to fund offset litho printing. The unknown component in that last calculation is the extent to which libraries would buy a paper copy. Libraries are cutting subscriptions hand over fist and my bet is that there would be more takers for an institutional online subscription than the paper one.
Because I think open access is the way to go, I feel all options should assume that access to stuff more than five years old would be free.
Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles
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Quote:What's with dead-tree publishing? Why not reused-rag publishing? ;-)
Because that last is what I think of by the term 'paper' and the stuff we buy these days is mostly made from dead trees. I get really angry when people tell me they luuuurv 'paper' books when we haven't had proper paper books for years. Books have evolved almost as much as digital platforms; they've just done it more slowly.
Mike Bishop
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Quote:How about putting them on iTunes books or so? Would cost just a little bit to download each paper.
And give Apple even more money? Yeah, right :grin:
Mike Bishop
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Yeah, but giving it to Amazon is hardly better... ^^
Christian K.
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Mike,
As someone who is a university librarian in my day job, and a serials librarian to boot, I implore you to adopt the print and digital model. It will ultimately give the most flexibility and in the (very) long run it is the only real method of preservation. I can go to the shelf in my collection and take down a 300 year old book and read it, who knows if a electronic version will be available in 300 years time from now? I understand your concerns about dead trees and I share them* but if you really want to ensure the best chance at preservation, then distributed paper copies of JRMES in university libraries throughout the world is probably your best bet.
Best,
Lucianus
*I curate a botanical library which specializes in temperate zone trees.
L.E. Pearson
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Quote:As someone who is a university librarian in my day job, and a serials librarian to boot, I implore to adopt the print and digital model. It will ultimately give the most flexibility and in the (very) long run it is the only real method of preservation. I can go to the shelf in my collection and take down a 300 year old book and read it, who knows if a electronic version will be available in 300 years time from now? I understand your concerns about dead trees and I share them* but if your really want to ensure the best chance at preservation, then distributed paper copies of JRMES in university libraries throughout the world is probably your best bet.
As someone who is responciple for a government archive I can only second that. About once a month I throw old stuff in the bin: not paper, but discs and VHS tapes that no-one can read anymore. I bet that electronic data will be around in 300 years time, but I know what data can no longer be accessed after just 10.. :unsure:
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Quote:I voted for hybrid.
What's with dead-tree publishing? Why not reused-rag publishing? ;-)
This is America, nothing has to make sense here :lol:
I think you guys have changed my mind, I think hybrid would be better. Can't change my vote though.
@ markhebb
I look forward to reading your paper then, that is very relevant to my studies in the 5th Century.
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Quote:As someone who is a university librarian in my day job, and a serials librarian to boot, I implore to adopt the print and digital model. It will ultimately give the most flexibility and in the (very) long run it is the only real method of preservation. I can go to the shelf in my collection and take down a 300 year old book and read it, who knows if a electronic version will be available in 300 years time from now? I understand your concerns about dead trees and I share them* but if your really want to ensure the best chance at preservation, then distributed paper copies of JRMES in university libraries throughout the world is probably your best bet.
The hybrid is my favoured model too but it is the trickiest to fund. When I worked in a medical library after I left school we had 500-year-old books and that was the first time I came across the notion that older books stand a better chance of surviving than more recent ones, paradoxically.
Quote:*I curate a botanical library which specializes in temperate zone trees.
So they chop them down in order that you can read about how they've all been chopped down? Weird. Luckily, sustainable planting means more trees are supposed to be planted than are felled. Still weird, though ;-)
Mike Bishop
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Quote:Because I think open access is the way to go, I feel all options should assume that access to stuff more than five years old would be free.
Obviously this is hypothetical, but would that include digitised/scanned versions of the original JRMES as well? You wouldn't get an awful lot for your c.$10 in the first year otherwise (a problem with the hybrid model as well, I guess).
With regards to printing, it's better to do inadequately than to not do it at all! Digital media is going to suffer much less from format redundancy in the future as vast HDDs and swift transfer via USB become the norm. I have several full colour books and more than enough pdfs to match JRMES's original run just on my USB right now, and as that ages it can be transferred very easily to a more up to date storage medium. Keeping the software to run the files may be an issue, but I don't think it is insurmountable.
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Like others, I think that a printed journal which ends up in research libraries and national collections of periodicals is crucial. That is the only way that we can be assured that JRMES will be available in 50 or 100 years. Books live unless interfered with, bits die unless interfered with.
$20-30 per year does not seem unreasonable. Would delaying a year or two in putting up the digital version be sufficient?
Nullis in verba
I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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Quote:Like others, I think that a printed journal which ends up in research libraries and national collections of periodicals is crucial. That is the only way that we can be assured that JRMES will be available in 50 or 100 years. Books live unless interfered with, bits die unless interfered with.
$20-30 per year does not seem unreasonable. Would delaying a year or two in putting up the digital version be sufficient?
Sean,
Sometimes there is a "moving window" of access to electronic journals of 3-5 years. I think it would be reasonable to adopt a similar model here, if it made sense for Mike in terms of costs and logistics.
Best,
Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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The hybrid solution sounds by far the best compromise and I am confident there will be enough generated interest in such a specialist but popular periodical that the print copy is acceptable to libraries/arcives.
...and HURRAH it is being revived! 
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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Hmmm. A total of 207 views but only 30 votes. I wonder what that says about RAT/JRMES?!
Mike Bishop
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Quote:Hmmm. A total of 207 views but only 30 votes. I wonder what that says about RAT/JRMES?!
Maybe the reason is simply that many viewers do not care much about HOW JRMES will be published but that does not mean that they do not feel strongly about the fact THAT JRMES will be published again.
I am certainly not rich but I was a subscriber to the original JRMES publications and found them extremely good value for money at (if I remember correctly) 20 - 30 GBP.
There should definitely be few hundred RATers willing and able to spend something between 10 and 50 USD p.a. for such a publication in whatever form. I would certainly be among them.
Maybe the poll should be "would you subscribe and how much would you be willing to spend?"
Regards,
Jens Horstkotte
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Quote:Hmmm. A total of 207 views but only 30 votes. I wonder what that says about RAT/JRMES?!
The last JRMES was for the years 2001/2 and I see that I got my copy from Oxbow in 2005. The number of pre-2005 RATers is limited and the user list shows that a lot of those are no longer active members. Maybe not enough members know about JRMES.
Michael King Macdona
And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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