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SASSANIAN/ROMAN SADDLE
#1
Thank you to Dan and everyone else.<br>
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Dan, if you do get a saddle, please put me first on the list. I will definitley buy one. I am working on a Sassanian Heavy Cavalry suite, and the saddle is one of the hardest things to find. If Deepeeka makes a few, please contact me directly. I would love to buy one or two.<br>
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[email protected] <br>
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As for the Sassanian Saddle. There were a few types of Saddles used in the Sassanian armies. I have stood at the wall carvings at Tagi Bustan and Naghsi Rustam and seen them in person. The four horned saddle is used by many of the early Sassanian kings like Ardeshir and Shapur and it is clearly visible in the wall carvings. In fact, its visible on many of the other battle freezes and coronation freezes. The other form of saddle that was used is exactly like the McClelland Saddles. In fact, the McClelland saddle is a copy of the old war saddles. So, it is with minor alterations that the base saddle can me made to look like many of the saddles used by the Persians, Romans and the like. Finally the other saddle that I noticed is a much more refined and elaborate saddle as that pictured on the Tagi Bustan picture. For lack of a better description, it is a much more refined and elegant version of the McClelland. Much lower profile with lower pommel and cantle. More cirular as well in the pommel and cantel and more ornate.<br>
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As for the horses and their sizes. Much of the Roman writings regarding their confrontations with the Parthians and Sassanians mentions the Roman fear and Hesitation in confronting the Heavy Cavalry of that region because of the much larger horses. When they refer to the much larger horses, they are referring to horses that topped out at 15.2 to 15.3 hands. The light Cavalry and medium Cavalry and Horse Archers also ranged between 14.3 to 15.3 hands. Having said that, in the east, the Romans eventually employed many of the local and local equipment and tactics into their ranks to be able to confront this eastern problem. Hence the evolution of the Heavy Roman Cataphract which resembles almost identically the Sassanian Cataphract. In fact, it is very easy to assume that many were infact peoples of those regions employed by the Romans, in Roman fashion.<br>
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On a side note, many of those wall carvings and grotto carvings are beyond explanation. No photo, can in anyway explain the size and enormous example of them and the detail in them. I studied the bridles, saddles the armor very carefully and took very careful note of them. Saw many actual Sassanian and Parthian artifacts in person and let me tell you, they are unbelievable. Especially the Swords. A sword, dagger and horses bit are in the Metropolitan Museum in New York. I highly recommend you see them if you have a chance. They are unbelievable examples.<br>
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Anyway, Dan, if you could please contact me directly, I would love to pursue this option with Deepeeka as well. I have Peter Connolly's specifications on the saddle. But before making one myself. Id like to pursue the Deepeeka option first. Peters sent me the article on how to make it. Its quite a process. Very simple yet extremely complicated.<br>
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Ardeshir Radpour<br>
[email protected] <p></p><i></i>
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#2
Ardeshir<br>
I once participated in American Civil War reenacting. I was in a cavalry unit (5th Kentucky US) that used the McClelland saddle. I would very much like to see some of these Persian saddles. I have an interest in Sassanian heavy cavalry(as well as the horse archers!). I'm a professional illustrator and have done several illustrations of cataphracts. I will try to post them this week.<br>
Thanks for your efforts!<br>
JOhnny <p></p><i></i>
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#3
Just in case you haven't seen this:<br>
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www.cavazzi.com/roman-emp...valry.html<br>
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These are pictures of the Troop who do re-enactment events on their horses in Britannia.<br>
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Viventia <p></p><i></i>
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#4
Hmmm, Im trying to think what would be the best option for seeing some of the saddles outside of the men at arms books. I dont know too many books that publish too much about the Persians here. The books I have are from Iran that I and my father have brough back, and also photos that I took myself. But in order to really see the saddles, you have to see the carvings themselves to get the details of it. If I can get good enough scans, Ill see about posting them.<br>
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As far as riding the McClelland, its a fund saddle to ride. I totally stripped mine down and took all the U.S. Cavalry stuff off of it.<br>
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On another note, I have a friend of mine who is one of the finest producers of Horse tack in the world. I am talking with him right now about the possibility of producing the saddle. Let me see what I can come up with through him. I am curious what people would think is a reasonable price to pay and if it would be worth it to him.<br>
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As far as reasonable goes, I mean a realistic price that would make him pursue making this. He is burried in making bridles and saddles, and probabley sells about a thousand bridles a month, so I have to see how attractive I can make this offer for him. His work is impecable.<br>
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Ardeshir <p></p><i></i>
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#5
I think I've read where troopers in the civil war would strip the saddles down to make it lighter. I can see how this would work. Did you see alot of armor dating from the 3rd century AD? Laminated arm guards? What is it like to handle a lance on horseback. I used my saber on occasion, but generally would dismount and fire my rifle. I really like the McClellan saddle and had no idea it's ancestor goes back to Persia! Cyrus the Great was ahead of his time. I think there has never been a greater Persian leader since. His understanding of human rights and religious freedom was incredible. Modern Iran could learn from him. Anyway, I hope you can post the pics of the sassanian saddle!!<br>
Thanks for your efforts<br>
Johnny <p></p><i></i>
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#6
Sassanian says that Sassanian scuptures show saddles.<br>
This is interesting. Does anyone know of roman scuptures that show saddles? I have seen many many roman sculptures showing troopers and have never yet seen even the slightest indication of a saddle. Isn't it odd that sassanian artists would find it pertinent to show a saddle while on the other hand roman artists not!?<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#7
There are plenty of depictions of military saddles in Roman art. You can see horned saddles on Trajan’s Column and many grave monuments. There is a very clear depiction of a military saddle, not of the horned variety, on the painting from Luxor. Military saddles can also be seen in Parthian, Bosporan and Sarmatian art.<br>
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This is all from memory, I don’t have any of my books at hand, but I’m sure someone else will leap in with the details.<br>
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Gregg<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#8
I guess I must believe you but if you can post an example from Trajan's column or any other example I would really be greatful. In particular I have looked at many many photos of Trajan's column and I haven't yet come across a saddle. Maybe I have not been lucky. <p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#9
Almost all of the cavalry art that are wall carvings in Iran depict the saddles. As for handling the artifacts. hahahahaha not on your life. The are well preserved and protected.<br>
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As for Cyrus the Great, yes, he was pretty amazing. He was a Zoroastrian Persian, so am I. I have researched and studied him and Acheaminian Persia, Parthian Persia and Sassanian Persia quite a bit.<br>
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What is interesting to me about western approaches to Persia is how the separate the Parthians from the Persian. They were Persians. We dont make that distinction in our history nor our language. Same with the Saramations. They were an Iranian People. So it amazes me when I read the way they are presented.<br>
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Origionaly, the Persians were a sect of the Iranian peoples. Which Iran can literally be translated as "land of the Aryans". Once the Achamenid Persians consolidated their powers, the name Persia or Parsa to be accurate was implanted as the name of the empires or empires. The main difference that forced the Sassanians into heavy anti Parthian actions was that they were Mithrix and the Sassanians viewed this as a bastardization of Zoroastrian. They believed that Mithra was Ahura Mazda and not one of the Angels for lack of a better explanation.<br>
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Also, in ancient Persian we have 48 letters in the alphabet, in moder Persian we have 32. In Modern Persian, there are three S's one of which is actually pronounced TH if pronounced properly, which Persians do not. In Anceint Persian we say Parta to the Parthians, or refer to them by the dynasty name that founded them as the Ashkan or Ashkanian. But as a whole they are referred to as Parta, which in itself is a dialect pronounciation of Parsa.<br>
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Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up. Much of the Saramation, Parthian, Sassanian armor is the same, just depends on the era, and the contingent in the Cavalry that you are looking at. They had, Super heavy cavalry, heavy cavalry, Medium armored cavalry, light cavalry, and unarmored cavalry which would consist of archers, ropers, messengers, or scirmish troops. The heavy and medium cavalry also had archers. Finally there were the Immortals and the Fedayeen Cavalry. Those were the elites, kinda like our special forces. Then, there were the wealthy and aristocratics of extreme wealth and rank that were throughout the different divisions. As for their equipment, it depends on which section your looking.<br>
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Cataphracts and high impact groups would use saddles that have much more leverage for high impact and close quarter battling. Light cavalry needs a more manuverable saddle. One of the reason that the four horned saddle is so effective is that it supplys both. The saddles like the McClelland also do the same. By the way, that design saddle was invented in the region, not necessarily by the Persians. Also, to get a great idea of Persian/Roman heavy cavalry, you can look at Byzantine heavy cavalry, it was in exact copy of the Roman/Persian Cavalry. In fact, that is all that it was. And it didnt change much for many hundreds of years. In fact, clear up to the Mongol era, they were still using some of the same equipment. Minor changes such as the addition of stirrups. Which were actually in use at the end of the Sassanian Empire. But there is much reference to Byzantine stuff and that is a fantastic source for research. <p></p><i></i>
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#10
Thanks for the history lesson!<br>
So you are Zoroastrian, I just assumed you would be Muslim. Is Zoroastrianism allowed in Iran today? I know the Islamic world does not like religious freedom! I have an interest in the Roman and Persian army during the 3rd century AD. I know that the Romans began using heavy cataphacts, exact copies of the Persian. You have my interest kindled on the Byzantine cavalry! I will look into some of my books tonight! Yes, I know that Iran really means "Ayrian". The people of Iran have more in common with Europe(racially) than they do with their Arab neighbors(I'm an American of French/English descent and my wife says that I look Iranian!!).<br>
Thanks for the information.<br>
Johnny <p></p><i></i>
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#11
Fine post, Ardeshir!<br>
We tend to ignore how organized, civilized and interesting were our Persian 'foes' and how much their equipment influenced Roman one!<br>
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About that McClelland saddle, I must confess my ignorance, could someone point me to a link showing it clearly?<br>
The reason why I'm asking for it is that the saddle depicted quite clearly on the Luxor frescoes is by no means a horned saddle and I wonder if it could be related to that Persian saddle...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#12
www.bufordsboys.com/McClellanSaddle.htm<br>
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Try the above.<br>
Johnny <p></p><i></i>
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#13
Many thanks, Johnny!<br>
The Luxor saddle is similar to the McClelland. Have you realized that the model origined in territories belonging or influenced by the Roman Empire?<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#14
I thought McClellan designed it after the saddles used by the European Hussars. For some reason Crimean War era (1854) saddles comes to mind. I will have to look this up!<br>
Johnny <p></p><i></i>
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#15
Hi guys<br>
please can someone give precise coordinates of a roman scupture that shows a saddle? A claim was made that they can be seen on Trajan's column. I haven't found anything yet. Anywhere else?<br>
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Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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