Cavalry and chariots against infantry

[Domen]

profess to research tactics and then use literature of historical fiction (and not even say that he did)....

How so?

He provided the source of this artistic, fictional description:

"--Description from Potop "Deluge" Henry Sienkievich."

By the way - you are right that the translation quality is, unfortunately, not the best.

I checked the original Polish version.

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But of you disagree with that then why did you bring it forward?

I don't disagree with everything - I agree with some aspects, with some others not.

I brought it forward mainly because he mentions the importance of length of lances in overcoming pikemen. And also he describes how hussars minimized casualties from musket fire (i.e. charged in open order initially, while later altered / tightened their formation during charge to close order - before collision with enemy line, they were already charging in a "knee-to-knee" close order formation).

I also brought it forward because it is in English - and newer versions of his theory are in Polish - and I would have to spent a lot of time on translation. And I said I'm quite short on time currently.

I will take my time though - and we might slow down a bit, the pace of this thread is fast.

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Btw, why did you call the charge at Beersheba "classic"?

Sorry, it was not a very fortunate use of language.

I used wrong words. I should write that it was use of cavalry in a "traditional" way (i.e. not as mounted infantry which only moves to battle on horseback, but as cavalry which fights mounted).

In WW2 cavalry was used almost only as mobile infantry (and fought dismounted).

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As for the painting, although such art is generally regarded as not that helpful, it only shows a band of horsemen approaching an enemy pike formation at an indeterminable speed. the only strange thing I find in it, tactically, is that for some reason, these horsemen prefer to maneuver in front of the enemy formation instead of attacking it in its exposed and (in the painting) undefended flanks or just pass through them and spread along its rear. On the other hand, maybe this is what they did in the next frames of the board story :-) :-) ....

And what about this painting below? Also inaccurate (in Your opinion)?

It was painted by a certain Pieter Snayers in year 1630 (and depicts the battle of Kircholm from 1605 - but tactics used by hussars did not change that much between 1605 and 1630):



This illustration above, is of course just a part of the bigger image (just like that from Klushino):

Pieter Snayers - "Battle of Kircholm 1605" panorama (BTW - we can see infantry in close order):



Wikipedia article about Pieter Snayers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Snayers

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And here the entire panorama of the battle of Klushino by Szymon Boguszowicz:



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practically stopping and trying to jump over it.

I see it completely differently (that it tried to ram it).

And IMHO my interpretation (that it was an attempt of ramming) is the right one - after all, "practically stopping" and "trying to jump over" are two contradictory activities - as horses are not able to jump over sth. while standing, they can jump over after taking a running leap (i.e. while on the move). This horse slowed down - because it was trying to check if it is able to ram that object (and it was careful - it did not want to hurt itself, that's why it slowed down - but it was an attempt of ramming it, not jumping over).

Your interpretation of that particular horse's intentions is clearly erroneus.

The person who uploaded that video on YT also named it "horse ramming a fence".

Me and that person cannot both be wrong.

And also - there is a huge difference between "practically stopping" and "slowing down".

This horse slowed down - not "practically stopped". But slowing down is not what horses do when trying to jump over something (because they know, that they need speed to do jump over sth.).