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Help with shield patterns ????
#1
Greetings friends, i need some help with late roman shields patterns.

Recently i buy HAT Late Roman Medium Infantry 1:72 figures and i don't know which shield pattern to use????

I want to create army that was stationed in today Serbia but ther is no shield patterns for that specific unit in Notitia Dignitatum !!!

Can someone tell which pattern to use on a shield hat operate od Balkan part of Danube ?

Maybe legio V Macedonica ??

if there are any shield pattern that have been used by Legio VII Claudia and Legio IV Flavia Felix (ie their successors) ?????

Thanks in advance!!!!
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#2
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/...terns.html

This site gives all the units and where they were stationed. Modern-Day Serbia is part of Pannonia Secunda, Pannonia Savia, and Moesia.

The Quinta Makedonika and the Legio Undecimani Claudia were stationed in Eastern Bulgaria, so they would not be suitable.

(V Macedonica was also in Egypt and Syria, and XI Claudia was also in Spain and Gaul)
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#3
Please note, that it is rather improbable that the shield designs in the notitia show the designs actually used by these units, if they were using shield emblems consistently at all.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#4
Any suggestion what should i paint on shields ???
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#5
Quote: Please note, that it is rather improbable that the shield designs in the notitia show the designs actually used by these units
I would love to begin a thread about statements such as yours. I wasn't very impressed with a similar statement in the last Ancient warfare, which was all too simply brushing aside what was drawn in the ND, ignoring evidence to the contrary.

I'm not saying that the shield patterns as shown in the MSS of the Notitia Dignitatum are 100% correct, far from it, but equally do I think that calling their use 'improbable' is basing on anything solid either. While I cvan imagine that many of these designs were more intricate than the simple drawing that have come down to us, several of them are indeed represented in contemporary art, and as yet proof that the ND designs are not based on the imagination of a Medieval copyist who had no clue what he was doing.

As a result, warning that re-enactors should refraid from using these design are a bit overeager. If we did that for all Roman shields, there would be opreciously little to use.

Quote: if they were using shield emblems consistently at all.
We do have a reference in Ammianus (XVI.12.6) to Germans recognising Roman units by their shield designs:
Alamanni enim scutorum insignia contuentes norant eos milites permisisse paucis suorum latronibus terram, quorum metu aliquotiens, cum gradum conferrent, amissis pluribus abiere dispersi.
"For the Alamanni, on seeing the devices of their shields, realised that these soldiers, who had given ground before a few of their brigands, were the men in fear of whom they had at times in the past scattered and fled with heavy losses, before coming to close quarters."
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#6
Quote:Any suggestion what should i paint on shields ???
Have you decided on a unit yet? You could also chosse a design of fantasy of course, based on evidence but a bit different, and be done with the discussion? ;-)
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#7
Yes i will gladly chose Secunda, Pannonia Savia, and Moesia but ther is no shield patterns for that units Smile .... do you think is ok to use auxilia palatina on balkan in that period ????
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#8
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/...ricum.html

Any units under the Magister Militum per Illyricum would be applicable for the Eastern Half of Modern Serbia.

Any units under the Comes Illyricum would be applicable for the western Half of Serbia.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/...ricum.html

Basically, Everything from Sirmium west is Comes Illyricum, anything from Singidunum East is Magister Militum per Illyricum
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