Searching For Scabbard and Gladius PARTS

[Pointer]

I am Searching For Scabbard and Gladius PARTS or advice on thicknesses.

Is there any company that you know of that sells parts? For the Gladius other then the blades themselves?

First of all, be patient with me on the names of the parts.

I am especially looking for the bands of brass that go completely around the scabbard and hold the rings in place for the Baldric attachment points.

Also the decorative tip piece at the bottom of the Scabbard what is it and where can I get a few? I have also seen scabbards with a coin or medallion encased on the bottom, but I have not been able to locate those pictures. Any leads on what that was? Especially pictures...

Thank you!

Patrick

[FarDarter]

The website Therionarms.com has lots of great stuff, in my experience.i don't know if you will be able to get parts, but the guy who runs it might be able to bend the rules. But no promises.

[Pointer]

I believe the ne part I am looking for is a "Chape"?

[Caballo]

Try Mercia Sveiter- nice people too.

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

Hi Patrick,

I don't know if you've read it but there was a lengthy thread on fabricating a gladius scabbard and fittings a while back. It might have some helpful information for you: http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/20-roma...mitstart=0

Best,

Lucianus

[Crispvs]

You might also be interested in my thread (which I must get around to completing one of these days) on how I made my scabbard:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/20-roma...mitstart=0


Crispvs

[Pointer]

THanks Crispvs... and Lucianus... THe threads won't allow me to look at the pictures...

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

THanks Crispvs... and Lucianus... THe threads won't allow me to look at the pictures...

Hmm,that's odd! I can click into both of them and they open in a new window. I assume you're logged in because you could post this response. I wonder if you want to try logging out and then logging back in again. Just a thought. I'm accessing RAT on a PC on Chrome if that makes any difference.

I hope you can get this resolved, I think both threads would be helpful.

Best,

Lucianus

[MartinWard]

Pat

probably best if you decide on type of gladius you want before you look for scabbard parts

[Pointer]

Nope... WHen I click on them, it takes me to the dialogue but says I am a "Guest". I can put my log in information in there and it won't accept it.

It seems to happen to me on older posts. I have used Chrome and Safari and it happens in both of them.

[Crispvs]

Strange - I'm using Firefox 2 and it opens perfectly for me.

The advice about deciding on the scabbard type first is good. Mine is for a particular type of Pompeii scabbard and Sam's is for a type which seems to cover both Mainz and Pompeii types. You need to consider what period your impression is to depict. Don't think in terms of entire centuries (little equipment would have survived that long and many changes occurred in equipment in this time) but think in terms of twenty or at most twenty five year periods.
There are three types of Mainz type scabbard, not including the scabbard type using the Valkenburg/Pota Novo type locket, all of which use different metal parts and which may possibly reflect changes or developments rather than simply different traditions. Prior to the Mainz type sheaths we see sheaths such as the one from the River Ljubljanica which appear to go with the longer swords of the early to mid first century BC and which were still in use by some soldiers at least as late as Tiberius' campaigns in the Balkans during the reign of Augustus.
Similarly, the Pompeii type scabbard may not have lasted long into the second century AD and the scabbards depicted on the Tropaeum Traiani all appear to have a sinuously embossed metal plate running their length. Soon after that, the ring pommel sword, associated with a completely different type of scabbard, makes its appearance and so on.

Therefore, before you start on a scabbard, decided exactly which decade of which century you want to depict a soldier of. Then start to make a scabbard type appropriate for that soldier.

Crispvs

[Pointer]

I guess I should correct what I am looking for...
I am looking for a source for the brass bands that wrap around the scabbard that you put the Baldric loops through. I have seen many that are grooved/crimped/channeled <----- Not sure how else to explain. They appear to be a 1/2" wide and are "Ribbed"?

Are those usually hand made? And if so, how do you go about doing it? THey appear to me to have been run through a pressure roller system to keep it consistent.

I realize that the plates will be done by hand... but I was wondering if there is a source for these other pieces of trim?

[Crispvs]

They are known as 'cross hangers'.

Again I would counsel you to choose your period first. Cross hangers (which are normally ribbed on Mainz and Pompeii scabbards, although far simpler on the transitional 'Valkenburg/Poto Novo' type) drop out of use in the mid second century AD in favour of scabbard slides, which themselves go through a range of developments over time.

If you have already decided on a specific period and let us know what that is, we can then concentrate on getting the details right for you.

Crispvs

[Pointer]

SO sorry... I am working on two Impressions at the same time. Both 1st Century AD.

1. AN Optio. I would like to make both a MAINZ and a Pompeii
2. AN Officer. (Making special handled swords found in sculpture.) Working on a Mainz... And a Parazonium Dagger.

[Crispvs]

Right, that narrows it down slightly, although still not really enough. Simply saying '1st century' is like saying '20th century'. Far too much changed across that length of time for it to make very much sense in terms of being able to date something properly. It is far better to think in terms of (at most) quarter centuries. So if decades seem too precise think instead in terms of the first, second, third and fourth quarters of the first century AD.

If you plan on having a Mainz type sword, that would probably put you in the first or second quarter of the first century. The latest deposited Mainz type sword and scabbard I am aware of is the one found in the River Thames at Fulham, which seems most likely to have been deposited during the AD40s. A Mainz type sword from Vindonissa probably dates to around the same time, although it is possible it could have been deposited as late as AD69 (this is the latest possible date though and a date in the AD40s is probably more likely [I believe the dating is based on different building phases, although someone may correct me on this]). It is possible therefore that some Mainz pattern swords were still in use into th third quarter of the 1st century AD, but from the evidence as I understand it, it seems likely that the Mainz type sword had largely been replaced by the Pompeii type sword by then. It is possible of course that the AD40s was a time of transition between the two types, which might explain the apparent association of 'Valkenburg/Porta Novo' type scabbards with both Mainz and Pompeii swords.

If you wanted to have the option of waring either a Mainz or a Pompeii type, I would suggest choosing a timeframe in the AD40s or 50s. I would therefore suggest making a Valkenburg/Porta Novo type scabbard for the Pompeii sword, probably using either the Long Windsor or Valkenburg lockets as these are (as far as I know) thought to have been of around the same dimensions originally and the Long Windsor example was found with a simple Pompeii type chape and the remains of a Pompeii type sword.
You could also put your Mainz type sword in the same type of scabbard, but choosing one of the wider locket plates from this group, which are far more likely to have been associated with the somewhat wider Mainz type swords. If you wanted to make the Mainz sword look older than the Pompeii sword, you could make one of the earlier styles of Mainz scabbard. Of these, perhaps the so called 'sword of Tiberius would be a good option, which might be slightly easier than the other two types to make, although the type with embossed front plate might be a better choice if you had or could develop the skill to emboss it, as the Fulham sword has this type of scabbard, as does the sword I mentioned from Vindonissa. This type may be marginally later that the 'sword of Tiberius', given that the latter features a stamped image of Tiberius (hence the name). There is also the interessale type of Mainz scabbard, but unless you are very experienced at punching accurate shapes out of metal I would suggest staying away from attempting this type.

Staying with assumption that we ate dealing with the middle of the first century AD, we should move now to your belt. Avoid enamelled belt fittings, which do not start to make an appearance until the AD70s. I would also avoid plain belt fittings such as those from Velsen, as by the middle of the century plain plates like these may have been becoming fairly unfashionable compared to inlaid type 'A' plates and both concentric circle and figural type 'B' plates. For armour your best option would be either mail or scale. If you wanted segmentata for that period you would probably need to use the Kalkriese type, which you would probably need to get custom made, as I don't think there is mush evidence of the Corbridge type quite that early, although it might have been starting to appear. There are certainly enough Kalkriese type fitting from Britain to show that it was still in use at least as late as the AD40s.

You mentioned making a parazonium. I would be careful here. As I understand it, the parazonium was a ceremonial weapon carried by a general. Below that, I would expect swords to be of fairly normal types but using more expensive materials, such as gold and ivory, for their handles and scabbard fittings. Here we might consider both the Mainz type sword from Rheingoenheim, whose handle is completely sheathed in silver, and the Pompeii type sword from Segontium which had an ivory handle, both of which might be candidate for centurions' swords, or perhaps even tribunes.

Crispvs