Aktaeon

[Exaras]

I'm currently looking for something similiar to this depiction on the Artemis wall hanging found in Egypt. It shows Actaeon clad in chlamys, tunic, scale armour and pants. The armour is ununsual for heroic hunters like Actaeon. The wall hanging is dated as 4-6th century. Is he wearing military equipment or are there also hunting depictions from the same timeframe with armoured hunters? Is someone able to make a better age determination, because of the the equipment? Those disks on his knees are unusual too. I've never seen orbiculi on pants.
Regards
Emmanuel

[Dan Howard]

I can't pick any kind of detail at all from that image. It is so fragmentary and so stylised that it could be interpreted in any manner that you wanted.

[Exaras]

It don't think it is that much stylised. For example the end of the sleeve of the scale armour looks like it is edged like on middle byzantine warrior saint depictions.

[Dan Howard]

It may not even be scale armour. It could just as easily be the feathered wings of a religious costume or the stylised depiction of fleece.

[Dan Howard]

It may not even be scale armour. It could just as easily be the feathered wings of a religious costume or the stylised depiction of fleece.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello

I cannot see any evidence of hunting in the posted image. Is it a detail of a larger scene?

There are depiction's of a number of warrior gods from Roman Egypt usually in the third century period. As Dan say's the equipment shown in these paintings are always open to interpretation although I would have said that in this case it looks like scale armour too.

As for orbiculii on legs, the so called figure of Stilicho on the famous ivory carving has one on his left leg but this is the first time that I have seen them on both legs, again if that is what they actually are.

Graham.

[Exaras]

Fleece, a religious costume and feathered wings are very unlikely. Heroic hunters usually wear normal clothing of the time (mostly chlamys and tunic) in late antiquity and no exotic stuff. The Meleager and Atalanta wall hanging is roughly the same time and shows both heroes in upper class silk. In fact the depiction of heroes in late antiquity is often very similiar to imperial iconography. I wish I could post a complete picture of the wall hanging so it is easier to understand, but I'm currently failing at adding an attachment. :? Actaeon reminded me a bit of the christ as warrior mosaic in ravenna, early 5th century:
http://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/asian_...avenna.jpg

I cannot see any evidence of hunting in the posted image. Is it a detail of a larger scene?

Yes and the wall hanging is large: 1,70m x 6-8m. It consists of three parts. A group of static heroes with names written in greek (Meleager, Narkissos, Akataion, the rest is lost) to which belongs Actaeon, Artemis in a Naiskos and a wild hunting scene.

As for orbiculii on legs, the so called figure of Stilicho on the famous ivory carving has one on his left leg but this is the first time that I have seen them on both legs, again if that is what they actually are.

Thanks, I've never noticed the orbiculus on his knee before.

[Exaras]

Here is a picture of the Meleager and Atalanta wall hanging, most likely the findest piece of textile art that survived until today:

[Robert Vermaat]

Here is a picture of the Meleager and Atalanta wall hanging, most likely the findest piece of textile art that survived until today:

Where? I can't see it.

[Dan Howard]

Heroic hunters usually wear normal clothing of the time (mostly chlamys and tunic) in late antiquity and no exotic stuff.

You'd first have to demonstrate that the character is a hunter. Why could he not be one of the Roman-Egyptian warrior gods?

The character in the middle looks like he is wearing scale armour but that pattern is not the same as that on the character on the right.

[Dan Howard]

The fleece on this goat is rendered in a similar pattern as the above image.

If you are having trouble adding an image, try using Internet Explorer instead of Firefox. The latest version of Firefox has a bug that prevents us from attaching images on this forum.

[Exaras]

Thanks, I think it worked.

You'd first have to demonstrate that the character is a hunter. Why could he not be one of the Roman-Egyptian warrior gods?

Because the name Actaeon is written above his head and he is standing next to Artemis. The heroes are so far as their names are still readable the same as on the Megalopsychia Hunt Mosaic:

Meleagros, Narcissos and Actaeon are frequently shown as hunters in the art of late antiquity. I would think of the possibility of them being egyptian warrior gods if there were no names beside their heads. Anyway that does not mean that there is no link between the clothing style of egyptian warrior gods and those heroes on the artemis wall hanging. It might be that the egyptian artists used depictions of warriors in roman art as model for their warrior gods. Therefore I would be very grateful for a literature title in which these egyptian warrior gods are cited or a picture.

The fleece on this goat is rendered in a similar pattern as the above image.

It might be that it is fleece. A good comparison would be fleece on a human being on a piece of art made in roughly the same timeframe. The figure of Abel in 6th century mosaic in ravenna is wearing such archaic clothing, but I don't remember that fine silc clothing and raw pelt are combined on one person in 4-6th century art.

Where? I can't see it.

Here it is, took me some time because I was on vacation:

[M. Demetrius]

The latest version of Firefox

Is this a known, reported bug? It just started a week or two ago. Those Firefoxy anti-RAT degenerates!

[Exaras]

It looks to me like the scales of Meleagros (second attachement, the one in the middle of the group) are pointing up. Is there any evidence for scale armour of this kind in late antiquity? I've seen this only on middle byzantine lamellar armour before. It was favoured by cavalry, because it deflects strikes from below one's position. References would be great. This thread had a vaguely similiar example:
http://ancient-warfare.org/rat/12-ancien...orale.html

[Dan Howard]

It looks to me like the scales of Meleagros (second attachement, the one in the middle of the group) are pointing up. Is there any evidence for scale armour of this kind in late antiquity?

IIRC some Egyptian scale was aligned like this.

I've seen this only on middle byzantine lamellar armour before. It was favoured by cavalry, because it deflects strikes from below one's position.

This is a common misconception but I don't think there is any evidence to support the idea. Whether the scales are aligned upwards or downwards could simply depend on what sort of lacing patterns are employed.