Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Roxolani and Iaziges
#17
Back to you both,

Perevalov seems to have a good handle on it. Actually, the first author (in the English language) to note that the Roxolani were Sarmatians... and that the Iaz were something else... was Simonenko. Harmatta doesn't actually say the Iaz were "not" Sarmatians; he just mentions the big difference.

The first recorded mention of the contus comes from Tacitus, who puts it in Roxolani hands... along with the long (Chinese influenced) sword. Harmatta goes into detail on Iaz graves in Pannonia, being flat, containing short swords. He then mentions the Roxolani arriving next, following the Iaz and settling in Pannonia. Roxolani graves were barrows and contained long swords. We can see that the Iaz were culturally related to the Western group-- the Scythians. And we see that the Roxolani were the first Alans-Sarmatians to enter Europe, a tribe which was culturally related to the Eastern group, the Saka-Massagetae. Even Ammanianus confirms this. Also, the Iaz and related tribes, like the Testosages, had slaves. The Roxolani-- "the shining Alans"-- did not have slaves, and all Alans/Wusun/Sarmatians/Saka/Massagetae were free men and women.

The contus was developed far to the east, as was the long 40-41 inch sword. It's certainly probable that Tomyris used cataphract tactics when she defeated Cyrus the Great. The contus, heavy armor, and "barbarian clothing," were all adopted by the Chinese by the late Spring and Autumn Period... in other words, the very early Warring States Period. The Wusun cavalry was used by Emperor Wudi, who also traded noble Chinese women, including princesses, for Wusun horses... which he then called "Heavenly Horses." They came from the earliest recorded Alanic homeland, the River Ili Valley, just below the Tien Shan... the "Heavenly Mountains."

This eastern group-- the Wusun, Alans, Roxolani, Massagetae, Saka-- shows up in the west with all things "Sarmatian." There are misconceptions on the role the Iaz played in history; and the idea that they were Sarmatians, rather than the Sauromatae they actually were, persists in the writings of so-called knowledgeable writers until this present time. But Sima Quan and Tacitus knew one from the other, and Simonenko and Harmatta defined the difference in the 20th century. In the cited link to Harmatta's book, please refer to the subchapter "The Disappearance of the Roxolani," para. 184 to 189. Harmatta used the phrases Sarmatian and Sarmatae indescriminately BUT he did get the archaeological significance correct, including the mentioning the LONGSWORDS "which the Iazyges had never before seen."

I'm a Roxolanus by penchant, and have studied the eastern group for more than a decade. They were in no fashion related to the Iaz. :whistle:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-09-2013, 10:02 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-10-2013, 04:35 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-12-2013, 01:08 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-16-2013, 04:03 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-18-2013, 02:36 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2013, 02:58 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-24-2013, 10:30 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2013, 07:00 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-25-2013, 07:05 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-25-2013, 07:48 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-25-2013, 09:50 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-26-2013, 02:06 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-26-2013, 02:12 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-26-2013, 08:16 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Iosephus - 01-27-2013, 05:05 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-30-2013, 01:47 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-31-2013, 02:27 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Robert Vermaat - 01-31-2013, 04:45 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Sutoris - 02-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 02-01-2013, 12:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2013, 04:46 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Renatus - 02-06-2013, 12:14 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-22-2013, 06:56 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 02-23-2013, 02:58 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-23-2013, 07:02 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Michael Kerr - 02-23-2013, 11:19 PM
Roxolani and Iazages - by Alanus - 02-26-2013, 01:18 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Sutoris - 02-27-2013, 02:50 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 02-27-2013, 03:09 AM
Roxolani and Iazages - by eduard - 02-28-2013, 12:45 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-28-2013, 08:16 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 02-28-2013, 05:36 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 02-28-2013, 08:22 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Nadeem - 02-28-2013, 08:24 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-01-2013, 01:34 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 03-01-2013, 02:23 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-01-2013, 11:53 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-04-2013, 10:04 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-04-2013, 10:39 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-04-2013, 11:54 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-05-2013, 11:17 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-05-2013, 11:26 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-11-2013, 08:32 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 03-11-2013, 10:32 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Sutoris - 03-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-12-2013, 12:28 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-24-2013, 10:00 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by eduard - 03-25-2013, 01:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 09:49 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-27-2013, 10:04 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-27-2013, 10:18 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-27-2013, 10:40 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Flavivs Aetivs - 03-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-28-2013, 12:20 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 03-28-2013, 04:46 AM
Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 03-28-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 12-01-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-02-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Folkert van Wijk - 12-03-2015, 07:52 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 07:24 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-03-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-03-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 11:47 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-04-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 01:40 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-04-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-04-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-28-2015, 11:41 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 03:20 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Nathan Ross - 12-29-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by childeric - 12-29-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-29-2015, 07:16 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 12-30-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-30-2015, 03:11 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-30-2015, 10:14 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 12-31-2015, 03:40 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 12-31-2015, 06:22 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-01-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-02-2016, 02:32 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Michael Kerr - 01-02-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-02-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Holly Herda - 01-11-2016, 12:49 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by Alanus - 01-11-2016, 02:24 AM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by BoBoOlson - 11-20-2020, 09:33 PM
RE: Roxolani and Iaziges - by BoBoOlson - 11-22-2020, 11:29 AM

Forum Jump: