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Hi Alain,<br>
Yes, it looks very nice! Better now with a pair of cuff bands, isn't it?<br>
Once that the ink drawings for the patches are scanned, the colour changed, cleaned and scaled, it takes around two or three days to make a complete tunic like mine. Now I have three of them. The first one has its patches now rather faded. A tunic like mine can last no longer than two years...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
Hello Caius Ambrosius here. I was going through RAT and love your late roman tunic. I have a couple of LR tunics. However nothing as good as this. Would there be a chance of someone making them for sale? Cheers Caius Ambrosius <p></p><i></i>
Well, thank you for the pictures, Aitor, your tunic looks very good. Very well done also, Alain, for this new tunic.<br>
But just a question : who can explain me how these guys in these years, could wear so pretty tunics with orbiculis, every day in dust, under the subarmalis and mailshirt ? It is not possible, the embroderies should be destroyed ...<br>
In hot climate, that was linen ? Always with long sleeves ?<br>
And what colours for soldiers ?<br>
Next time !<br>
Patrick <p></p><i></i>
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Hi Patrick,<br>
<br>
Under the subarmalis there would be less of a problem, I think. But yes, these tunics look very delicate and should not in my opinion be considered as 'normal' for the common soldier.<br>
I also think the 'less ornate' tunic would probably show more monochrome colours and less detailed decoration. We have found very beautifully decorated tunics, but I think these should be considered 'treasure', hidden or kept safe as items of value.<br>
<br>
In art, where we do see military or armed servants with beautiful tunics, these seem to be depicted as retinue of rich or powerful people, not as commoners. It may not be a coincidence that less ornate mosaics and frescos show also less detail in the clavi and orbiculi.<br>
<br>
Colours? I'd say anything. There does not seem to have been a 'uiniform' in the Late Roman army, even though with the production of clothes by the state, there could have been one better than any time before or after. But what texts we have do not seem to refer to unit or army (or military!) indentification through clothing, just by shield designs.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Hi Robert,<br>
I think you're right. A common low ranking soldier surely wasn't rich enough to afford such an adornated tunic. Plain or less adornated patterns may be more convenient for the rank and file. For the officers, it was surely most common to wear wealthy tunics, even on campain, simply because of their military status (as they also wear gilded or silvered helmets).<br>
<br>
Hi Patrick !<br>
Yes, linen is more convinient for summer clothes, just like for the coptic tunics. I've seen no evidences for short sleeve tunics... but I'm not onmiscient.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Alain <p></p><i></i>
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Hi Alain,<br>
<br>
About those helmets, of all the Late Roman helmets found so far, all except one were at least covered with a thin silver layer.<br>
For now, we've been discussing this on RAT, and the best we came up with was that the silver did not belong to a certain rank, but it may have prevented corrosion. After all, the Late Roman helmet was supposed to be cheaper in production than the earlier models, so why add silver to add to that cost - just for looks?<br>
<br>
But then, it just might be, or we may have found only officer's helmets.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]FECTIO[/url] <p></p><i></i>
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Hi all,<br>
Interesting questions! I'm not the oracle And, therefore, I've got no clear answers for them.<br>
Anyway, I'd like to mention a pair of facts.<br>
Ancient garments, specially those with tapestry patches were expensive and custom woven. Not withstanding, their live was fairly long. A good deal of the so-called 'Coptic' textiles had found their final re-use torn as funerary wrappings (I shan't dare to call them mummy wrappings, but shrouds or something intermediate to both! ) In the meantime, what had started as a tunic for an officer could have been given by him to a lower status soldier after some time until it became unusable and ended in the 'centonarius' shop or as a shroud.<br>
It would be interesting to know how the indictional tunics looked like. We would maybe surprised if we'd found that they were decorated with patches, even if simple, because what counted in ancient times was the price of raw materials, the cost of handwork ws negligible. To express it in short, perhaps a tunic with patches dyed with true purple and embroidered in silk and gold was a luxury item, but the same tunic only with common materials, perhaps was far mor accessible...<br>
Don't forget that a great part of textiles are curtains and the like and that most part of the more or less fully preserved tunics are children tunics.<br>
It is not true that late Roman helmets were cheaper than the Imperial ones. The only one possible thing is that they needed less workmanship to be made and that was a simplification that allowed for an increased production...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
thank's Aitor, Alain, Robert, for all ideas and explanations !<br>
I think for the late roman re-enactor, tunica is the most difficult thing to create, it's take a long time but it's a good way to search because thats the way these guys lived...<br>
An other question : we must always wear bracae or not ?<br>
In hot climate ?<br>
Why from the third century we see on frescos long sleeves and bracae ?<br>
Cold climate, maybe ? Otherwise, a "fashion victim" effect ?<br>
Alain, you'll be in july in Maubeuge ... do you agree the presence of two or three Herculianis, to join you ?<br>
I'll be there with XXII Primigenia but one or two of my friends want to come with their equipment, so we can join you for a moment ...<br>
Patrick <p></p><i></i>
Hi Patrick !<br>
<br>
Concerning the bracae, I think you can put them off if the weather is hot, but you must keep the leg wrappings. For Maubeuge, no problem ! You and your guys will be welcome.<br>
<br>
Alain <p></p><i></i>
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