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Clothing Patterns for Late East Roman/Byzantine
#1
Salvete! Happy New Year RATers!

I'm looking for clothing patterns that would fit AD 400-550 Eastern Roman personae. A quick forum search was not incredibly successful, although perhaps my search perimeters weren't zeroed in correctly.

So, I was hoping that this plea would yield some more fruitful results!
Bryan Dove
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#2
I have not had much joy either.
Even the Osprey's I have for the Varangians and the Imperial Guards are later...9 cent onwards.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#3
How about Roman Military Clothing (3): AD 400-640?
aka T*O*N*G*A*R
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#4
A great book! But for the less tactile-y talented, in need of actual patterns vs. pictures if they exist!
Bryan Dove
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#5
You have to settle with the coptic patterns from a century earlier. Real clothing differences came in only at the 9-10. centuries (manazan tunic e.g.), until then it looked like a heavily ornamented late roman gear.
Mark - Legio Leonum Valentiniani
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#6
I think Medieval Design used to make a 6th Century Byzantine pattern.
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#7
Quote:A great book! But for the less tactile-y talented, in need of actual patterns vs. pictures if they exist!
Granted Timothy Dawson focuses on the Middle Byzantine period, some items of clothing might not have changed, aside from decoration, so maybe he might be of help. Another option might be to hand a copy of the Osprey to a decent tailor, who will produce some patterns, possibly based on your measurements. Any costs could eventually be recouped by offering the patterns for sale to interested re-enactors.
aka T*O*N*G*A*R
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#8
Tongar,

that's exactly how I got started..... :grin:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#9
Quote:I think Medieval Design used to make a 6th Century Byzantine pattern.
Their current LR outfit is mostly based on the 4th c. Piazza Armerina mosaics and the Thorsberg finds. The chlamys might be later, indeed.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#10
If you go here: http://www.levantia.com.au/clothing/Dawson_tunic.pdf there is an article of mine which gives several patterns for Late Antique > early medieval tunics. My new book *By the Emperor's Hand: Court regalia and military dress in the eastern Roman Empire, c.500–1453* there will also be patterns for coats and trousers from surviving examples. I hope it will be out this year.

It is a myth based upon selective archaeological survival, and selective publication, that the Coptic style dominated the Empire in Late Antiquity. Outside Egypt semi-tailored tunics and coats were the norm for men, in the style known in the Egyptian context as the "Iranian / Persian horsemen's" outfits.

Me'theou,

Timothy
Social History and Material Culture of the Enduring Roman Empire.

http://www.levantia.com.au
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#11
Hi Tim,

Quote:It is a myth based upon selective archaeological survival, and selective publication, that the Coptic style dominated the Empire in Late Antiquity. Outside Egypt semi-tailored tunics and coats were the norm for men, in the style known in the Egyptian context as the "Iranian / Persian horsemen's" outfits.
That's quite a bold claim and I'm not going to argue against it, but I sure would like to hear more about that. By 'Outside Egypt', you mean the Eastern part of the Empire or anywhre from Anatolia to Britain?
I would not say that Coptic style tunics were the only ones seen in the streets, but you sure come across them quite often in art, especially where military and the higher groups in society are portrayed. Of course, local styles always occcur and older styles are also present still.
So although the word 'dominated' might indeed be overstressing their importance in art, to call the current knowledge "a myth based upon selective archaeological survival, and selective publication", is quite something else in my opinion.

Do tell us more!

Now reading your 2003 article.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#12
Robert, you wrote:

> you sure come across them quite often in art,

But do you? In fact what you see is a repertoire of tunic decorations which are most familiarly known from Coptic survivals. When you see clavii, segmenta and so on, it does not tell you how the garment was constructed. In fact, they were common to other garment constructions in the fifth and sixth centuries and continued to be so long after the fall of the western provinces.
The Metropolitan Museum tunic I mention in the article is an example of a transitional form - made in the Coptic manner with some of the familiar decoration (clavii), but then partially tailored.

Timothy
Social History and Material Culture of the Enduring Roman Empire.

http://www.levantia.com.au
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#13
And I should add that the article is wrong in one respect. Since I wrote it they carbon dated the fabric of the tunic and found it was thirteenth century, which is interesting for a bunch of other reasons.

Timothy
Social History and Material Culture of the Enduring Roman Empire.

http://www.levantia.com.au
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