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Cohort commander?
Adding to my statement that Polybius is confused about which classes the velites belong to, there is another area that also confuses Polybius. In his account of the Roman legion Polybius (Book 6) states the legion numbered 4200 men. On two other occasions Polybius (2 24 13), (3 107 11) mentions a 4200 man legion was accompanied by 200 cavalry. Although Polybius gives three references to a legion numbering 4200 men, they are not the same legion. Taking a mathematical approach, 200 cavalry equates to two thirds of 300 cavalry, which is the standard complement assigned to a legion. Now if a legion has 60 centuries, then 40 centuries equates to two thirds of 60 centuries. So are those two references of 4200 man legion accompanied by 200 cavalry referring to a 40 century legion? By dividing 4200 by 40 centuries, a century amounts to 105 men, which unfortunately exceeds the century value by five men. Now it is stated the Roman cavalry are on the same century roll as the infantry and it is this doctrine that Polybius does not understand or is completely ignorant about. By taking 40 centuries and multiplying it by 5 men this will produce 200 cavalry. So what we now have is a 40 century legion or 4000 men accompanied by 200 cavalry and this is how Polybius should have written it.

For the past 500 years, Polybius’ description of the maniple legion has been widely accepted by historians of all ages, while Livy’s version has been either rejected outright, or viewed with extreme scepticism. It is difficult to ascertain with any certainty how this transpired, but a small snapshot of commentaries by generations of historians since the advent of the printing press will highlight the comparison in popularity between Livy and Polybius.

Military Essays of the Ancient Grecian, Roman and Modern Art of War, James Turner (1670), page 84. “Titus Livius, that famous historian, in his eighth book giving a particular account of the great battle fought between the Romans, and their allies the Latines, marshals the Roman legion in such a confused way, that he is not at all intelligible, and hath given just a reason to both the learned and military men, to think that place is corrupt, and a sense made of it, never intended by the author.” Page 95 “Polybius…being a person of so great abilities, as those parcels of his history, yet extant, speak him to have been, and truly we have reason to be sorry that we are robbed of those books of his which all devouring time has deprived us.”

A Critical Inquiry into the Constitution of the Roman Legion; Robert Melville (1703), page 1-2 “Polybius, having had the best opportunities of knowing the Roman militia, and having been always esteemed a judicious and accurate author, merits the highest credit. From him we have a distinct account of the method of encamping, and of the order of the troops in marching out of, and into, the camp. He has likewise described the disposition of the legion, when in order of battle. The passage of Titus Livius (Book 8 8), relating to the legion, is declared, by all the commentators, to be corrupted almost in every sentence, insomuch as scarcely to admit of correction; besides, though the legion underwent different changes in different periods of the state, neither he nor Vegetius mention particularly to what period they refer.”

Warfare in Antiquity, Hans Delbruck (1908) page 291. “The 15 maniples Livy reports here may, however, very well be historically accurate. It is conceivable that originally the old phalanx was divided into only 2 echelons, of 15 maniples each, and that a recollection of this was retained in the account. It is true of course, that Livy does make the mistake of giving all 3 echelons 15 maniples. But a legion of 45 maniples certainly never existed. The original legion of 42 centuries is definitely proved for us by the voting organisation of the century elections, and the relationship between this legion and that described by Polybius, in which there are 1200 lightly armed men allocated to 3000 hoplites, equalling 42 centuries, is completely clear.”

Livy: His Historical Aims and Methods, P. G. Walsh (1961) page 157 “Livy’s geographical vagueness is a weakness; still more crippling is his ignorance of military matters. The parts of his history left to us are in large measure concerned with commanders and their armies; how unfortunate therefore that he had not the mind of a Xenophon, which readily apprehended the use of weapons and mechanical devices. Equally unfortunate was his lack of military experience which made him ignorant of battle tactics.”

Hannibal’s Legacy: The Hannibalic War’s Effects on Roman Life, A. J, Toynbee, (1965), Vol. 2 page pp 506-507. “Our earliest trustworthy description of the Roman legion is Polybius. He is almost certainly describing it as he had seen it in his own time: that is to say in the generation of Scipio Africanus Minor…Livy, writing more than a hundred years later than Polybius, gives two descriptions of the legion which he attributes to pre-Polybian dates. One of these Livian descriptions purports to describe the legion as it was in the reign of King Servius Tullius, at some date in the second half of the sixth century BC; the other is dated by Livy to the time of the Romano-Latin War (340 – 338 (337 -335 or 336 -334 BC). We do not know what authorities Livy is following in these two passages; we have no means of testing his statements; and, even if we had reason to believe that these two descriptions do correctly represent two stages in the evolution of the legion before the Hannibalic War, we cannot be sure that the dates which Livy assigns to them are right. It therefore seems wisest to leave these two Livian descriptions out of account, except in so far as any points in them may turn out to be confirmed by the Polybian evidence.”

The Roman Imperial Army, Graham Webster, (1969), page 21; “Livy describes in detail the new organisation of the legion, but there are difficulties in reaching a full understanding.” Page 27; “It is for this time also that we have a detailed description of the army by Polybius. This stands as the most complete and accurate account, surpassing all others.”

The Legion and the Centuriate Organisation, G. V. Sumner, The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 60. (1970), page 69. “Now Livy under the year 340 offers a mystifying account of the state of the Roman army at the outbreak of the Latin Revolt (VIII 8 3). The four-legion army he describes is already a manipular one, but it is oddly different from Polybius…The whole farrago appears as an antiquarian reconstruction, concocted out of scattered pieces of information and misinformation, mostly to do with the manipular army. One of its underlying features seems to be a strained attempt to establish some sort of relation between the new military order and the five categories of the census classification. In short, Livy's account should not be treated as a valid description of any form of the manipular legion. Only the details confirmed by other sources have any claim to credence.”

The Literacy Sources for the Pre-Marian Army, Elizabeth Rawlinson, Papers of the British School at Rome, 39 (1971), pp 13-31, “We come to the conclusion, then, that Livy’s account is an interesting attempt at reconstruction, at times enterprising and correct, at times improbable in the extreme.”

The Making of the Roman Army, L. Keppie, (1984) page 20. “Livy’s account must be largely derived from much later sources, especially Polybius, so that its independent value is not great. Yet its very incongruities may lend it a certain measure of authority. Livy may have been attempting to reconcile patchy and discordant source-material; but it is difficult to suppose that the legion he describes ever existed in reality…For the organisation of a Roman legion solid ground is reached only with Polybius himself.”

Lines, Maniples and Cohort, Dr Philip Sabin (1997). “Our second major source is Polybius. He was a careful historian and experienced military man who had personally observed the Roman army in action in the mid second century BC. Later Sabine adds “Unfortunately, Livy was writing in the Augustan era, centuries after the events concerned, and he is by far the least reliable of our three key sources.”

Cannae, the Experience of Battle in the Second Punic War, Gregory Daly, Published in 2002. Page 54; “The most detailed and generally reliable source of information on the army of the mid-republican Rome is the description of it in the sixth book of Polybius.

The Republican Roman Army; A Source Book, Michael M. Sage, Routledge (2008) “Finally, it is hard to make sense of Livy’s view of the number of men in the legion. Various calculations have been offered but there are too many uncertainties for it to be possible to reach a firm conclusion.”

Early Roman Armies, Nick Sekunda and Simon Northwood, Osprey Men-At-Arms Series 283, (1995), page 40. “Although there is a certain internal logic in Livy’s account, which makes a literal interpretation of his manipular system perfectly possible, severe doubts arise concerning the historicity of Livy’s description…Livy’s account must surely be rejected. Page 41 “As he is making the accensi combatants, Livy has to invent weapons for them to carry and consequently he has created an entirely spurious five-line formation with three rear lines.”

There has been much discussion about Livy having the accensi acting as triarii. I think I can recall one historian who has defended Livy in this matter. The majority of historians castigate Livy for his account in the same manner as Sekunda. However, there is another way of looking at this. The normal complement of triarii is 600 men. This indicates a legion can be deployed 200 men wide or 300 men wide. Now if the additional accensi number 1000 men then they can be deployed 200 men wide by five men deep, and when added to the existing 600 triarii deployed 200 men wide by three men deep, then the triarii and accensi are deployed 200 men wide by eight men deep, which makes a traditional phalanx. Livy is correct about the men being accensi, but in this case they are not camp servants but accensi can also apply to men from Class V. Looking at the Servian constitution, Class V is the second largest class next to Class I. What is happening here is originally an emergency legion consisted of additional triarii taken from Class V, and then later as Polybius indicates, the emergency legion was made up of additional hastati and principes, with the triarii remaining constant at 600 men.
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Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-19-2013, 07:09 AM
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Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-25-2013, 11:48 AM
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Cohort commander? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-26-2013, 07:24 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-26-2013, 10:26 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-28-2013, 06:47 PM
Cohort commander? - by Bryan - 01-28-2013, 10:06 PM
Cohort commander? - by Robert - 01-28-2013, 10:26 PM
Cohort commander? - by Bryan - 01-28-2013, 10:36 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-29-2013, 03:18 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-29-2013, 03:19 AM
Cohort commander? - by Robert Matthew - 01-29-2013, 12:29 PM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-29-2013, 08:08 PM
Cohort commander? - by C Crastinus - 01-30-2013, 03:43 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-30-2013, 04:35 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-30-2013, 04:47 AM
Cohort commander? - by C Crastinus - 01-30-2013, 06:49 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-30-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-13-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Frank - 03-14-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 03-19-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-19-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-20-2016, 02:38 AM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 03-20-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Julian de Vries - 10-17-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 10-17-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Julian de Vries - 10-23-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 10-23-2017, 03:18 PM

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