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Cohort commander?
Quote:I worry, too, about fussy and legalistic distinctions.

Me too, and it seems, that tradition had a strong meaning for the romans. Thats why we see a clear difference in structure if it comes to the auxilia/alae and new cohorts in Rome on one hand and the old legions otherwise.
Augustus was very keen on not violating republican traditions, because his position as a quasi-monarch was not secured finally.

Some historians claim, that by roman republican tradition, it was not acceptable, that a centurion leaded more than a century of roman citiziens in combat. Some even say, that for larger vexillationes (e.g. half of a legion) a roman magistrate elected by the people of Rome was a must. So even not every tribune was qualified (ex-magistrate).

Also the role of the centurion as commander of auxilia cohors changed over time. The first sources I know of, were in the punic wars, when centurions became military advisors (not commanders) of the numidic forces which supported Scipios army. Later during republic we find centurions promoted to praepositi or prefects of auxilia even before they came to primipilate. With Augustus the equestrian career starting with the prefect of an auxilia was established, but the equestrian career was not fully working and established until Claudius. So we see still some centurions leading auxilia cohorts, but they diminish. As well as the local ethnic commanders of auxilia diminished. Latest with the batavian revolt mid of 1st century. So the first half of the 1st century is a phase of transition, which therefore looks a bit fuzzy.

It becomes even more fuzzy with vexillationes. I always ask, what was the purpose of a vexillatio led by a centurio, how big was it, were the soldiers roman citizens and what timeframe we are talking about? If the purpose was not combat and/or the soldiers non-citizens it fits perfectly to roman traditions, even if such a vexillatio had to fight suddenly. And again, later emperors could manage change easier than Augustus could, so we have an overall ongoing transition from Augustus to the late empire. Thats why things look a bit fuzzy, imho.

I am very convinced, that inside a legion regarding legionary cohorts things are not less fuzzy and changing over time gradually.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas
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Messages In This Thread
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-05-2013, 12:23 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Cohort commander? - by Narukami - 01-05-2013, 12:54 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-05-2013, 01:20 AM
Cohort commander? - by PhilusEstilius - 01-05-2013, 01:30 AM
Cohort commander? - by PhilusEstilius - 01-05-2013, 01:39 AM
Cohort commander? - by Sardaukar - 01-05-2013, 01:43 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-05-2013, 03:20 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-05-2013, 03:21 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-05-2013, 03:26 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-05-2013, 03:44 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-05-2013, 04:54 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-05-2013, 05:05 AM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-05-2013, 05:25 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-05-2013, 08:16 AM
Cohort commander? - by PhilusEstilius - 01-05-2013, 05:32 PM
Cohort commander? - by Mark Hygate - 01-05-2013, 11:56 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-06-2013, 12:16 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-06-2013, 12:51 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-06-2013, 01:18 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-06-2013, 01:27 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-06-2013, 02:02 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-06-2013, 03:12 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-06-2013, 06:49 AM
Cohort commander? - by LVCIVS SERGIVS ANTONINVS - 01-06-2013, 07:19 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-06-2013, 08:07 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-06-2013, 08:15 PM
Cohort commander? - by LVCIVS SERGIVS ANTONINVS - 01-06-2013, 11:30 PM
Cohort commander? - by LVCIVS SERGIVS ANTONINVS - 01-07-2013, 12:07 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-07-2013, 07:27 PM
Cohort commander? - by Mark Hygate - 01-07-2013, 09:47 PM
Cohort commander? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-07-2013, 09:52 PM
Cohort commander? - by Marja Erwin - 01-07-2013, 11:13 PM
Cohort commander? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-07-2013, 11:25 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-07-2013, 11:31 PM
Cohort commander? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-07-2013, 11:38 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-08-2013, 12:53 AM
Cohort commander? - by Mark Hygate - 01-08-2013, 03:18 PM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-08-2013, 08:40 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-08-2013, 08:55 PM
Cohort commander? - by Marja Erwin - 01-08-2013, 11:39 PM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-09-2013, 12:21 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-09-2013, 01:01 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-09-2013, 01:05 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-09-2013, 04:00 AM
Cohort commander? - by mcbishop - 01-09-2013, 04:47 AM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-09-2013, 05:57 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-09-2013, 03:38 PM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-09-2013, 07:22 PM
Cohort commander? - by Mark Hygate - 01-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Cohort commander? - by Mark Hygate - 01-10-2013, 12:10 AM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-10-2013, 07:57 PM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-10-2013, 08:09 PM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-10-2013, 08:39 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-10-2013, 08:50 PM
Cohort commander? - by LVCIVS SERGIVS ANTONINVS - 01-10-2013, 08:53 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-10-2013, 08:57 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-10-2013, 10:31 PM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-10-2013, 10:52 PM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-11-2013, 07:12 AM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-11-2013, 07:42 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-11-2013, 04:12 PM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-11-2013, 06:00 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-11-2013, 07:10 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-11-2013, 07:16 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
Cohort commander? - by LVCIVS SERGIVS ANTONINVS - 01-11-2013, 09:29 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-11-2013, 11:45 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-12-2013, 02:46 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-12-2013, 03:05 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-12-2013, 05:24 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-12-2013, 03:51 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-12-2013, 04:25 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-12-2013, 04:32 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-12-2013, 06:34 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-12-2013, 06:46 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-12-2013, 07:44 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-12-2013, 08:07 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-13-2013, 12:30 AM
Cohort commander? - by Marja Erwin - 01-13-2013, 01:28 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-13-2013, 02:03 AM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-13-2013, 04:30 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-17-2013, 12:54 PM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-17-2013, 01:37 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-17-2013, 08:11 PM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-18-2013, 01:41 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 02:27 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 02:34 AM
Cohort commander? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2013, 02:55 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 03:42 AM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2013, 03:58 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 04:18 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-18-2013, 04:49 AM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2013, 04:52 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 04:58 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 05:15 AM
Cohort commander? - by thomas aagaard - 01-18-2013, 06:23 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 07:42 AM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 08:41 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-18-2013, 01:41 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 03:41 PM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-18-2013, 04:12 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-18-2013, 04:34 PM
Cohort commander? - by thomas aagaard - 01-18-2013, 04:43 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 04:53 PM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 04:55 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 05:08 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-18-2013, 05:16 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-18-2013, 05:38 PM
Cohort commander? - by popularis - 01-18-2013, 05:41 PM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-18-2013, 05:45 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-18-2013, 06:06 PM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-18-2013, 06:14 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 06:27 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 06:46 PM
Cohort commander? - by Robert - 01-18-2013, 06:52 PM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 07:02 PM
Cohort commander? - by Burzum - 01-18-2013, 07:18 PM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-18-2013, 07:19 PM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 07:42 PM
Cohort commander? - by Robert - 01-18-2013, 08:26 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-18-2013, 08:31 PM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-18-2013, 09:26 PM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-18-2013, 11:58 PM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-19-2013, 12:05 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-19-2013, 12:14 AM
Cohort commander? - by Flavivs Aetivs - 01-19-2013, 12:16 AM
Cohort commander? - by Macedon - 01-19-2013, 01:33 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-19-2013, 01:41 AM
Cohort commander? - by Jasper Oorthuys - 01-19-2013, 01:44 AM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-19-2013, 01:48 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-19-2013, 03:29 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-19-2013, 07:09 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-19-2013, 07:32 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-19-2013, 02:29 PM
Cohort commander? - by Frank - 01-20-2013, 01:51 AM
Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 01-20-2013, 06:10 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-25-2013, 11:48 AM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Cohort commander? - by Ross Cowan - 01-26-2013, 01:29 AM
Cohort commander? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-26-2013, 07:24 AM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-26-2013, 10:26 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Cohort commander? - by antiochus - 01-28-2013, 06:47 PM
Cohort commander? - by Bryan - 01-28-2013, 10:06 PM
Cohort commander? - by Robert - 01-28-2013, 10:26 PM
Cohort commander? - by Bryan - 01-28-2013, 10:36 PM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-29-2013, 03:18 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-29-2013, 03:19 AM
Cohort commander? - by Robert Matthew - 01-29-2013, 12:29 PM
Cohort commander? - by M. Demetrius - 01-29-2013, 08:08 PM
Cohort commander? - by C Crastinus - 01-30-2013, 03:43 AM
Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 01-30-2013, 04:35 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-30-2013, 04:47 AM
Cohort commander? - by C Crastinus - 01-30-2013, 06:49 AM
Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 01-30-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-13-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Frank - 03-14-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by D B Campbell - 03-19-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-19-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Steven James - 03-20-2016, 02:38 AM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Renatus - 03-20-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Julian de Vries - 10-17-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 10-17-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Julian de Vries - 10-23-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: Cohort commander? - by Nathan Ross - 10-23-2017, 03:18 PM

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