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Tinning two sides
#1
Ave,<br>
<br>
Is it possible to tin two sides of an object the ancient way, without ruining the side that is already done?<br>
I am asking this because I would like to tin my helmet and wondered if the partial visible backsides of the cheek pieces and the backside of the neck guard should be tinned too.<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Jurgen/Quintilianus <p></p><i></i>
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#2
I am no expert, but I have talked to a few. I recently spoke with one, who said the Romans had a method of electroplating. He gave details, but I didn't have the time to right them down. <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#3
Salve Quintilianus<br>
<br>
The few tinned helmets that I have actually handled have only the outside tinned. The inside was left bare. Rather than the usual 'tinny dipping', the helmet must have had the coating painted on, presumably by dipping a (very thick!) rag in molten tin and wiping it onto the outside in progressive layers. Alright for a smooth helmet, but not something suitable for belt-plates etc as I think the details would be lost.<br>
<br>
Vale<br>
<br>
Celer. <p></p><i></i>
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#4
Avete!<br>
Yeah, I've heard the rumor about electroplating before, and as far as I can tell it's bunk. Seems to be based entirely on the "Baghdad Battery", a rather ambiguous artifact which may or may NOT have been used to generate a small electrical current. A quick Google search on "Baghdad Battery" turned up several articles, the facts of which are not entirely consistent. It even seems possible that this item is either misdated or even a fake.<br>
<br>
But even if it's real, and was used as a battery, everything about its purpose is PURE supposition! There is no need to assume that because this thing existed that the Romans used electroplating at all, much less on a regular basis.<br>
<br>
If anyone can find anything in Roman literature describing any kind of electroplating technique, I will, as always, cheerfully eat my words. Until then, let's stick with applying molten metal to the item.<br>
<br>
Along those lines, a couple things I have learned about tinning. For items to be stamped out of sheet brass, tin the metal before stamping or embossing. That way the design hides flaws in the tinning, rather than the tin hiding details in the embossing. Also, the Romans seemed to be quite adept at tinning some parts of an item but not others, for instance tinning a face on a belt plate but leaving the background as bare brass. Most likely this is just a matter of carefully applying the flux, then cleaning up afterwards. Mildly tedious if you're doing a whole belt's worth of plates, but the Romans thrived on that sort of thing.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
<br>
Matthew/Quintus, aka "Old Give Me The Evidence" <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#5
No, its not the Baghdad Battery. It involves a process of solutions and temperature that I don't quite understand. More of a chemical reaction that produces an electrolysis effect. Sorry, I didn't get the details. It's been tested and works. If you want to know by who, email me.<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#6
The chemical 'electroplating' to which you refer is probably what is called 'pickling' in jeweler's terms. This is where you dip a base metal in a solution, which leaches off the surface atoms, which subsequently attach themselves to the next higher metal put in the solution.<br>
Apparently this does not always require jeweler's pickle (which is a retail product); cleaning solutions can take silver and accidentally coat gold with it; this is a problem at my daughter's shop.<br>
There are quite a few types of chemicals that might be involved, but it could be an alchemist's secret for turning a base metal into gold.<br>
I am reminded of Archimedes 'eureka' solution (no pun intended) about the problem of the composition of a gold crown. <p>Legio XX<br>
Fortius Conamur<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#7
Ave,<br>
<br>
I have have done the solder tinning as per Matt's instructions, and it possible to achieve very nice results. I did mostly already stamped pieces, and the flat pieces I did were MUCH easier. I also found that once you've messed it up, it can be very hard to get it nice and smooth again. I have also used a chemical tinning solution, made for tinning electronic circuit boards. It is called Tinnit, made by Datak. It is a powder, you mix it up and dunk you're pieces. It produces a very smooth , very thin coat of tin very quickly. There is another one made by GC electronics. I can't figure out if either of these is completely lead free, but the Tinnit is a white crystalline powder. I'll see how long it lasts.<br>
<br>
I've also noticed that alot of my solder tinning has taken on a brassy color. Did I do too thin and the brass is coming through? <p></p><i></i>
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#8
How do you get tin to stick to metal (iron)? After cooling it always comes off.<br>
Also, here in Belgium, tin powder is very hard to come by. Or am I looking in the wrong places?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Jurgen/Quintilianus <p></p><i></i>
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#9
Are you applying a tinning flux first?<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#10
I am using tin tread with a flux core.<br>
Maybe this isn't sufficient, but it was all I could get.<br>
<br>
Jurgen/Quintilianus <p></p><i></i>
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#11
I apply a flux paste first, heat it with a torch, then apply the molten tin. <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#12
I will try that, thanks John. <p></p><i></i>
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#13
Since I have an un-tinned patera, where can I find nice easy directions on how to tin it? Or, does someone have easy and helpful hints they could post here? Like where to find the supplies I need etc...<br>
John Gross <p></p><i></i>
John Gross
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#14
You could buy some flux paste at your local hardware store and then coat the patera with it. I use a butyl or propane torch (I forget which) to attach the flux, then you can apply the tin. I think there is flux with tin already in it too. Matt Amt knows. Be careful not to burn yourself on the hot metal. I did.<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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#15
I recently made a query to a freind of mine regarding the Bagdad battery and was informed that there were peices found in the area which are thought to have been electroplated with gold.<br>
<br>
It is possible that there existed such technology but as far as is known there is no evidence of its use in the Roman world.<br>
<br>
Sam Kimpton <p></p><i></i>
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