03-15-2013, 01:23 AM
Hello, Diegis
I'm not saying the Dacians were not early users of the draco, but that they did not "invent" it. The depiction on the Orlat Plaque-- even if we posit it at its LATEST date (1st Century AD) still predates Trajan's column. The important thing, for me, and for anyone viewing this discussion, is that the draco was used as a windsock rallying-standard and weather-vane for archers by a VERY LARGE NUMBER of steppe tribes BEYOND the Dacians. I have little doubt that the Iazyges and Roxolani-- both arriving in the Roman sphere prior to the Dacian Wars-- didn't use a similar form.
A draco, when the term is used in correct context, did not necessarily have a dragon or wolf head. As we see, the earliest examples did not have a head at all-- but they were still "dracos" in their purpose and intent. :-)
As for the term "Massagetae," it was used by Herodotus to describe tribes belonging to the Saka, the eastern Iranians living on the far side of the Caspian and Aral. Strabo refers to them as Saka, and Persian sources also use that name. To link the Dacians with the Massagetae is warping geography, and linking totally different tribes incorrectly. There isn't ONE professional historian in this day and age who will agree with you, not the Russians, Americans, Europeans, or Chinese. :whistle:
I'm not saying the Dacians were not early users of the draco, but that they did not "invent" it. The depiction on the Orlat Plaque-- even if we posit it at its LATEST date (1st Century AD) still predates Trajan's column. The important thing, for me, and for anyone viewing this discussion, is that the draco was used as a windsock rallying-standard and weather-vane for archers by a VERY LARGE NUMBER of steppe tribes BEYOND the Dacians. I have little doubt that the Iazyges and Roxolani-- both arriving in the Roman sphere prior to the Dacian Wars-- didn't use a similar form.
A draco, when the term is used in correct context, did not necessarily have a dragon or wolf head. As we see, the earliest examples did not have a head at all-- but they were still "dracos" in their purpose and intent. :-)
As for the term "Massagetae," it was used by Herodotus to describe tribes belonging to the Saka, the eastern Iranians living on the far side of the Caspian and Aral. Strabo refers to them as Saka, and Persian sources also use that name. To link the Dacians with the Massagetae is warping geography, and linking totally different tribes incorrectly. There isn't ONE professional historian in this day and age who will agree with you, not the Russians, Americans, Europeans, or Chinese. :whistle:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
