01-12-2013, 03:04 PM
I am sorry, i dont have much time either and a previous message was lost for some reason. I will answer just to few things, as post grow in number and can't reply to all properly
Nope, he clearly refferes to Getae/Dacians, especially when he mention them in relation with Alex the Great, Pyrrhus and Caesar, this is no doubt about. Maybe you want to say about his own time frame, if is correct that in Orosius times Getae to be called Goths, or other way around. This is something we can talk about (again) but its another discussion.
OK, Batavians was excellent horsemen and Germanic warriors was very good. I dont deny that obviously, i just say they wasnt quite that good or scary for real, for the Romans. Still need to see were i had the article of Guy Halsall about how Germans was used as a threat more in Roman propaganda, but for different reasons then a real military threat. Look for example at Vegetius who wrote a military treaty that tried to avoid propaganda and to improve the weakened Roman army of his era.
Look there (I think I already posted the link with quote from him) and see what people or nations he mention there, as whorty to be an example to follow or to remember by Roman legions.
But above all, when Roman authors all over ancient era period said that Mars, the god of war (and mythical father of Roman people) was born among Getae/Dacians, that rule over their lands and that they are his true image kinda end any comparation. When someone is compared with the god of war himself is the ultimate comparation possible to be made, so you must recognize it is at least a bit more then just "excellent horsemen".
I will put another quote from Julianus the Apostate writings (were he write about Trajanus)
<<Oh Zeus and the other gods, when I took over the empire it was in a sort of lethargy and much disordered by the tyranny that had long prevailed at home and by the insolent conduct of the Getae. I alone ventured to attack the tribes beyond the Danube, and I subdued the Getae, the most warlike race that ever existed, which is due partly their phsyical courage, partly to the doctrines that they have adotpted from their admired Zalmoxis. For they believe that they do not die but only change their place of abode, and they meet death more readily than other men undertake a journey. Yet I accomplished that task in a matter of five years or so.>>
OK, so Gauls was impressed and even quite scared many times when they face Germans in battle.
However, see above what Orosius say, that Alexander the Great, Pyrrhus (also called "the new Alexander") and even Caesar was afraid of Getae/Dacians and even say in public that they must be avoided (and history tell us that they did that).
Again, I think the comparision is favourable to Dacians
Quote:Once again time didn't allow me to continue, so I will now.
The first quote(which includes the above quote)with Paulus Orosius has no bearing considering he is referring mostly to Goths. For the rest of the quotes, I have no problem with. I have said multiple times the Dacians were a tough and martial people, I just don't put them at the level you do.
Nope, he clearly refferes to Getae/Dacians, especially when he mention them in relation with Alex the Great, Pyrrhus and Caesar, this is no doubt about. Maybe you want to say about his own time frame, if is correct that in Orosius times Getae to be called Goths, or other way around. This is something we can talk about (again) but its another discussion.
Quote:The type of quotes you put down are easy to come by for most peoples of the time:
Cassius Dio-“Roman History “ Wrote:7 and there were also picked foreign horsemen, who were given the name of Batavians, after the island of Batavia in the Rhine, inasmuch as the Batavians are excellent horsemen. 8 I can not, however, give their exact number any more than I can that of the Evocati. These last-named Augustus began to make a practice of employing from the time when he called again into service against Antony the troops who had served with his father, and he maintained them afterwards; they constitute even now a special corps, and carry rods, like the centurions. Pg.55,24,7
OK, Batavians was excellent horsemen and Germanic warriors was very good. I dont deny that obviously, i just say they wasnt quite that good or scary for real, for the Romans. Still need to see were i had the article of Guy Halsall about how Germans was used as a threat more in Roman propaganda, but for different reasons then a real military threat. Look for example at Vegetius who wrote a military treaty that tried to avoid propaganda and to improve the weakened Roman army of his era.
Look there (I think I already posted the link with quote from him) and see what people or nations he mention there, as whorty to be an example to follow or to remember by Roman legions.
But above all, when Roman authors all over ancient era period said that Mars, the god of war (and mythical father of Roman people) was born among Getae/Dacians, that rule over their lands and that they are his true image kinda end any comparation. When someone is compared with the god of war himself is the ultimate comparation possible to be made, so you must recognize it is at least a bit more then just "excellent horsemen".
I will put another quote from Julianus the Apostate writings (were he write about Trajanus)
<<Oh Zeus and the other gods, when I took over the empire it was in a sort of lethargy and much disordered by the tyranny that had long prevailed at home and by the insolent conduct of the Getae. I alone ventured to attack the tribes beyond the Danube, and I subdued the Getae, the most warlike race that ever existed, which is due partly their phsyical courage, partly to the doctrines that they have adotpted from their admired Zalmoxis. For they believe that they do not die but only change their place of abode, and they meet death more readily than other men undertake a journey. Yet I accomplished that task in a matter of five years or so.>>
Quote:Caesar-“The Gallic War” Wrote:“Our men started asking questions and the Gauls and traders replied by describing how tall and strong the Germans were, how unbelievably brave and skillful with weapons. Often, they claimed, when they had met the Germans in battle they had been unable to stand even the way they looked, the sternness of their gaze. Book 1.39 Carolyn Hammond.
There are many more of such quotes from many sources not of just Germani, but of Sarmatians, Celts, Spaniards, etc. etc.
OK, so Gauls was impressed and even quite scared many times when they face Germans in battle.
However, see above what Orosius say, that Alexander the Great, Pyrrhus (also called "the new Alexander") and even Caesar was afraid of Getae/Dacians and even say in public that they must be avoided (and history tell us that they did that).
Again, I think the comparision is favourable to Dacians
Razvan A.
