11-29-2012, 05:56 PM
Unfortunately i dont have time to answer now point by point to Frostwulf or Nathan.
What i want to point out is that Romans suffered heavy losses and not just that Domitian already bring lots of troops near Dacian frontiers (i think around 8 legions based along Danube from Panonia all along Moesia) but Trajan bring other two and form another two for those wars. This beside the very numerous auxiliar troops and iregular troops raised just for these wars (like German mercenaries showed on the Column half naked and armed just with clubs).
Karl Strobel is one of those who mention numbers as 175,000 Roman soldiers strong army assembled by Trajan in the war zone area
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/30...1497020967
Both Domitian and later Trajan did take troops from other frontiers and from all over the empire for these wars. The conquest of Caledonia is halted and Agricola and his troops are called back for ex. Legions from Orient, Britania and Germania (alongside Germanic mercenaries, probably bring both as "cannon foder" and to weaken the possibility of troubles in Germania) was bring in by Trajan.
This show the emergency and importance of this confrontation, with the risk of weakening the Parthian and German borders.
And the danger posed by Dacians, if we look at the very few ancient mentions preserved today (beside Tacitus who was already mention and who talk about Roman armies lost to Dacians):
<< Eutropius, Book VII, 23
"Oppius Sabinus, a man of consular rank, and Cornelius Fuscus, the praetorian prefect, were slain with large armies by the Dacians." >>
<< Cassius Dio, Roman History, Book LXVII
"but Domitian sent Fuscus against him with a large force.">>
<< Orosius, Historiae adversum pagano, Book 7
"Domitian, however, who was puffed up by the lowest form of vanity, held a triumph. Nominally this triumph celebrated his victory over the enemy, but in reality it celebrated the loss of his legions.">>
<< Jordanes, Getica
"XIII (76) Now after a long time, in the reign of the Emperor Domitian, the Goths, through fear of his avarice, broke the truce they had long observed under other emperors. They laid waste the bank of the Danube, so long held by the Roman Empire, and slew the soldiers and their generals. Oppius Sabinus was then in command of that province, succeeding Agrippa, while Dorpaneus held command over the Goths. Thereupon the Goths made war and conquered the Romans, cut off the head of Oppius Sabinus, and invaded and boldly plundered many castles and cities belonging to the Emperor. (77) In this plight of his countrymen Domitian hastened with all his might to Illyricum, bringing with him the troops of almost the entire empire. He sent Fuscus before him as his general with picked soldiers. Then joining boats together like a bridge, he made his soldiers cross the river Danube above the army of Dorpaneus. (78) But the Goths were on the alert. They took up arms and presently overwhelmed the Romans in the first encounter. They slew Fuscus, the commander, and plundered the soldiers' camp of its treasure. And because of the great victory they had won in this region, they thereafter called their leaders, by whose good fortune they seemed to have conquered, not mere men, but demigods, that is Ansis.">>
In this last battle Romans lost more then probably at least the battle standard of Pretorian Guard (as Fuscus, its commander, was surely acompanied by the battle standard of his unit), the most humiliating moment for them (and who normally would lead to the disbandement of Pretorian Guard, the Roman army elite who guarded the emperor).
This humiliation is probably the reason why Trajan used them such directly in battle too, to "wash" that previous failure
Then Romans was forced to pay a tribute to Dacians, who kept anyway the captured battle standards and war booty, plus receiving lots of money from the empire, and engineers and military instructors which allow them to profesionalize even more their army, in Roman style, including the construction and use of "artilery" as scorpions, balistae or catapults as its seen on Trajan Column
This made the Roman chronicars back then to "put undercover" and keep silence about those events, as the same Paulus Orosius said:
<< Orosius, Historiae adversum pagano, Book 7
"I would like to tell in detail of the great battles fought by the Dacian king Diurpaneus against the general Fuscus, as well as of the extent of the Roman losses. But Cornelius Tacitus, who wrote an exhaustive history of these events, has declared that Sallustius Crispus and very many other authors established the practice of keeping silence about the numbers of the slain, and that he himself preferred to do likewise.">>
Trajan prepared himself few years for this wars bringing even more troops, reinforcing and rebuilding the fortresses in Moesia, doing engineering work of huge dimenssion on Danube (including the partialy diversion of the river and later building big bridges over). Even so he needed each wars around a year to reach the Dacian capital, Sarmizegetusa, which is located i think at no more then 200 km from Danube, a distance of which Roman legionars can do in a week in just a simpla march.
Trajan of course amassed lots of provisions in the war zone in those years (he had Panonia and Moesia which provided lots of grains for ex, as well Danube allowed ships to travel all over much easier).
Decebalus knew that and the Dacian counter-offensive in the winter of 101-102 AD was specifically done to cut the Roman invasion army, blocked in mountains and by Dacian fortifications, from the logistic bases in Moesia.
If successfull, Trajan and his large number of troops will find isolated in mountains, in winter time (quite harsh here many times) and with logistic bases mostly destroyed.
Thats why he appear on the Column rushing (he is on a horse) with a part of his troops to help those left behind in Moesia to guard the bases. Fortunately for Romans it was a mild winter and the Danube didnt frozed as usual, which allowed them to use boats to move faster along the river
What i want to point out is that Romans suffered heavy losses and not just that Domitian already bring lots of troops near Dacian frontiers (i think around 8 legions based along Danube from Panonia all along Moesia) but Trajan bring other two and form another two for those wars. This beside the very numerous auxiliar troops and iregular troops raised just for these wars (like German mercenaries showed on the Column half naked and armed just with clubs).
Karl Strobel is one of those who mention numbers as 175,000 Roman soldiers strong army assembled by Trajan in the war zone area
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/30...1497020967
Both Domitian and later Trajan did take troops from other frontiers and from all over the empire for these wars. The conquest of Caledonia is halted and Agricola and his troops are called back for ex. Legions from Orient, Britania and Germania (alongside Germanic mercenaries, probably bring both as "cannon foder" and to weaken the possibility of troubles in Germania) was bring in by Trajan.
This show the emergency and importance of this confrontation, with the risk of weakening the Parthian and German borders.
And the danger posed by Dacians, if we look at the very few ancient mentions preserved today (beside Tacitus who was already mention and who talk about Roman armies lost to Dacians):
<< Eutropius, Book VII, 23
"Oppius Sabinus, a man of consular rank, and Cornelius Fuscus, the praetorian prefect, were slain with large armies by the Dacians." >>
<< Cassius Dio, Roman History, Book LXVII
"but Domitian sent Fuscus against him with a large force.">>
<< Orosius, Historiae adversum pagano, Book 7
"Domitian, however, who was puffed up by the lowest form of vanity, held a triumph. Nominally this triumph celebrated his victory over the enemy, but in reality it celebrated the loss of his legions.">>
<< Jordanes, Getica
"XIII (76) Now after a long time, in the reign of the Emperor Domitian, the Goths, through fear of his avarice, broke the truce they had long observed under other emperors. They laid waste the bank of the Danube, so long held by the Roman Empire, and slew the soldiers and their generals. Oppius Sabinus was then in command of that province, succeeding Agrippa, while Dorpaneus held command over the Goths. Thereupon the Goths made war and conquered the Romans, cut off the head of Oppius Sabinus, and invaded and boldly plundered many castles and cities belonging to the Emperor. (77) In this plight of his countrymen Domitian hastened with all his might to Illyricum, bringing with him the troops of almost the entire empire. He sent Fuscus before him as his general with picked soldiers. Then joining boats together like a bridge, he made his soldiers cross the river Danube above the army of Dorpaneus. (78) But the Goths were on the alert. They took up arms and presently overwhelmed the Romans in the first encounter. They slew Fuscus, the commander, and plundered the soldiers' camp of its treasure. And because of the great victory they had won in this region, they thereafter called their leaders, by whose good fortune they seemed to have conquered, not mere men, but demigods, that is Ansis.">>
In this last battle Romans lost more then probably at least the battle standard of Pretorian Guard (as Fuscus, its commander, was surely acompanied by the battle standard of his unit), the most humiliating moment for them (and who normally would lead to the disbandement of Pretorian Guard, the Roman army elite who guarded the emperor).
This humiliation is probably the reason why Trajan used them such directly in battle too, to "wash" that previous failure
Then Romans was forced to pay a tribute to Dacians, who kept anyway the captured battle standards and war booty, plus receiving lots of money from the empire, and engineers and military instructors which allow them to profesionalize even more their army, in Roman style, including the construction and use of "artilery" as scorpions, balistae or catapults as its seen on Trajan Column
This made the Roman chronicars back then to "put undercover" and keep silence about those events, as the same Paulus Orosius said:
<< Orosius, Historiae adversum pagano, Book 7
"I would like to tell in detail of the great battles fought by the Dacian king Diurpaneus against the general Fuscus, as well as of the extent of the Roman losses. But Cornelius Tacitus, who wrote an exhaustive history of these events, has declared that Sallustius Crispus and very many other authors established the practice of keeping silence about the numbers of the slain, and that he himself preferred to do likewise.">>
Trajan prepared himself few years for this wars bringing even more troops, reinforcing and rebuilding the fortresses in Moesia, doing engineering work of huge dimenssion on Danube (including the partialy diversion of the river and later building big bridges over). Even so he needed each wars around a year to reach the Dacian capital, Sarmizegetusa, which is located i think at no more then 200 km from Danube, a distance of which Roman legionars can do in a week in just a simpla march.
Trajan of course amassed lots of provisions in the war zone in those years (he had Panonia and Moesia which provided lots of grains for ex, as well Danube allowed ships to travel all over much easier).
Decebalus knew that and the Dacian counter-offensive in the winter of 101-102 AD was specifically done to cut the Roman invasion army, blocked in mountains and by Dacian fortifications, from the logistic bases in Moesia.
If successfull, Trajan and his large number of troops will find isolated in mountains, in winter time (quite harsh here many times) and with logistic bases mostly destroyed.
Thats why he appear on the Column rushing (he is on a horse) with a part of his troops to help those left behind in Moesia to guard the bases. Fortunately for Romans it was a mild winter and the Danube didnt frozed as usual, which allowed them to use boats to move faster along the river
Razvan A.
