Cohorts, Cavalry and Whatever Goes

[antiochus]

D Campbell wrote:
No wonder he was so angry when he lost three legions -- that must have really screwed up the "system". (And yet he didn't replace them. Odd?)


“In the third hebdomad, they generally conclude growth in terms of length.

In the fourth hebdomad they complete growth in terms of breadth, and there is no other bodily increase remaining to them: for 28 is a complete number.

In the fifth hebdomad, thanks to the manifestation of the harmonic 35, all increases as regards strength is checked, and after these years it is no longer possible for people to become stronger than they are…And the legal codes of the best constitutions have conscription up to this hebdomad (though some have it until the next hebdomad), and after this point allow people to be officers, but not to serve in the ranks any more.”

[D B Campbell]

“In the third hebdomad, they generally conclude growth in terms of length. In the fourth hebdomad they complete growth in terms of breadth, and there is no other bodily increase remaining to them: for 28 is a complete number. In the fifth hebdomad, thanks to the manifestation of the harmonic 35, all increases as regards strength is checked, and after these years it is no longer possible for people to become stronger than they are…And the legal codes of the best constitutions have conscription up to this hebdomad (though some have it until the next hebdomad), and after this point allow people to be officers, but not to serve in the ranks any more.”

How cryptic. :errr: A quote from your book? I hope there are annotations explaining what this is supposed to mean.

[Mark Hygate]

............How cryptic. :errr: A quote from your book? I hope there are annotations explaining what this is supposed to mean.

Indeed - that one was even harder than many of the others. :unsure:

My take on the Roman Army Organisation, Battlefield Tactics and Operational Planning is certainly much more based upon the (modern term) KISS principle.

Many of its senior commanders were not full time military men and my appreciation is that things were kept really simple - much more like 'point and shoot'.

If we armchair military historians can't easily understand it - then I'm completely sure that the Roman Army couldn't have!

[Kegluneq]

How cryptic. :errr: A quote from your book? I hope there are annotations explaining what this is supposed to mean.

I'm assuming he's saying that the legions could be brought back to the original numbers by expanding the remaining ones, rather than reinstituting the lost ones?

Whilst I think the military organisation of the Empire took practical considerations alongside the more traditional, even 'miffic' religious practices, the significance of the former is always going to be more apparent than the latter. As Mark Hygate said, the underlying religious motivation for consistency had to have been apparent to everyone in command, especially given the very pragmatic concerns of the Roman military. Unless there's a clear continuation of explicitly Pythagorean beliefs into the Principate and Later Empire, I don't think it can really be relied upon as a structuring principle.

[antiochus]

D Campbell wrote:
How cryptic. A quote from your book? I hope there are annotations explaining what this is supposed to mean.

Yes cryptic if you haven’t studied the (Pythagorean) hebdomad system. As I stated one of my preferred research methodologies is “the clue is in the connection.” Now if you connect the hebdomad system to Florus, Augustus is born near the end of the third age and rules in the fourth age. So the fourth age of the hebdomad system is the number 28 so in regard to the Pythagorean numbers religion Rome is theoretically at its strongest in terms of growth.

Robert wrote:
I'm assuming he's saying that the legions could be brought back to the original numbers by expanding the remaining ones, rather than reinstituting the lost ones?

If Augustus has returned to the Pythagorean religious principles of the hebdomad system Augustus can only create 28 legions. I have no idea of why he didn’t replace the three lost legions. However, if the Roman continue to abide by the Pythagorean system, when the greater zodiac of the cosmos moves into Gemini, which is the twins, the Romans can use this as a loop-hole to create a legion that already has been created. So in this manner, there can be two legions each of the same number and name.

Robert wrote:
Unless there's a clear continuation of explicitly Pythagorean beliefs into the Principate and Later Empire, I don't think it can really be relied upon as a structuring principle.

As I stated in my previous post “The period of the Principate was the less challenging of all the periods. It is straight forward and the empirical date given by Hyginus, Tacitus, Dio, Josephus, Arrian and Vegetius etc. reinforces the system is running true to form.”

So the period of the Principate is a Pythagorean based structure because without it you can’t get the Vegetius legion.

Mark wrote:
Indeed - that one was even harder than many of the others.

Are you saying that my example of taking 120 allied cavalry and multiplying this by 30 Latin cities to arrive at 3600 cavalry is hard to understand? Are you having difficulty understanding the examples I gave of how the Pythagorean ratio 3:2 can be applied to a 40 century, 50 century or 60 century legion and then be matched with examples found in the ancient sources? Sorry I refuse to believe they are hard to understand.

Anyway it is pointless going on with this thread anymore. No matter what empirical data I provide it is ignored by my adversaries and they only resurface in a bid to discredit me when there’s something other than empirical data to attack. The tactic of my adversaries is to attack the man not the ball.

As I no longer want to be a member of this forum, I’ve gone to the help menu but it does not say anything about cancelling membership. So how can I cancel my membership? By that I mean have it electronically wiped out. As I promised Renatus a free copy of the book Renatus needs to give me a postal address. My email is [email protected]

[D B Campbell]

So the fourth age of the hebdomad system is the number 28 so in regard to the Pythagorean numbers religion Rome is theoretically at its strongest in terms of growth. ... If Augustus has returned to the Pythagorean religious principles of the hebdomad system Augustus can only create 28 legions.

You have written "If" Augustus is abiding by your system. Are you saying that there is some doubt, then? And does your theory only govern the size of a legion, and not the number of legions, if it is unimportant for Tiberius only to have 25?

[antiochus]

I used the word “If” to make the discussion hypothetical so I then won’t be accused of making assumptions without supporting evidence. Basically I have no idea anymore in the manner I am supposed to reply. You guys have done my head in.

But it’s not all bad. Today I came across a reference by Porphyry about the Pythagoreans: “these notions should be kept secret, because the first seekers as both mystics and mathematicians thought that the untimely and clumsy use of the sacred laws organizing the world could lead to a serious upheaval in the universe.”

It’s the last line that should be the focus because it could explain why the Romans kept to the system, they were afraid of a serious upheaval in the universe, and it is this very claim that could explain Augustus’ statement that the civil wars that befell the Romans was because they abandoned the old religion.

Has anyone read “The Iconography of Sacred Space: A Suggested Reading of the Meaning of the Roman Pantheon Author(s): Christiane L. Joost-Gaugier Source: Artibus et Historiae, Vol. 19, No. 38 (1998), pp. 21-42.”

It shows that the Pantheon is built using the Pythagorean ratios (3:2, 4:3 etc) and its interior is modelled on the cosmos. Also back in the 1940’s some scholars found that Virgil based his paragraphs in this books on the Pythagorean ratios.

Can a moderator tell me how I can electronically delete my membership? I can’t find a “leave the group” button.

[Dan Howard]

Can a moderator tell me how I can electronically delete my membership? I can’t find a “leave the group” button.

Refraining from any new posts will have the same effect.

[Vindex]

Antiochus

You have a PM.

[antiochus]

The number of views when this thread finished was in the fifteen hundreds. It’s now 2011 views and I must say I am curious as to why members are coming back to read it. Maybe members are finding my original research worth revisiting and helping them open new doors.