Roman Saddle Question

[Nathan Ross]

A quick question for those of you experienced in Roman riding:

Is it possible for two people to be mounted on the same horse using the four-horned Roman saddle? With a modern saddle this appears possible (albeit uncomfortable and not for long periods), and we often read of wounded or unhorsed men being taken up behind their mounted comrades, for example.

But it seems to me, looking at pictures of the Roman saddle with the horns gripping the thighs of the rider, that this would not be an option - or would be so uncomfortable that the rider would be unable to manage the horse effectively.

Has anyone tried it? Could it be done?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The passenger would have to ride behind the driver! illy: In the caboose so to speak!
the horns don't allow for a second rider on the saddle itself. Unless both driver and passenger are
really really tiny! :mrgreen:

[jvrjenivs]

Not within the saddle.
Of course a second person could sit down behind the saddle, but that isn't comfortable for both horse and rider in the long run.

[Vindex]

Depending on the design of the saddle, Roman saddles have a smaller "seat" area than most conventional saddles as they do not have to accommodate the rider's knee position (there isn't a fixed one as there are not stirrups).

Byron is right; second riders are pillion or, in extremis, they can sit in front of the pommel on the horse's withers, but you need a strong, well balanced horse for that. Either way, it is not going to be a comfortable ride!

There is plenty or room for one up behind the rider but they would sit on the horse's loins. Not a great thing for the horse's back in the long term but it again depends on the horse; they have to be accustomed to doing it or chances are the pillion will be bucked off! It does not usually affect the main rider's control of the horse, however.

(As a point of interest, there's a scene in the film Centurion (near the end) where Thax get's up behind Q Dias for the last ride to the Wall and safety. Not Roman saddles, but if you watch carefully, you can see the horse's reaction to the pillion rider!)

[Nathan Ross]

Thanks all - so it seems pillion riding is possible, but only for short distances, and not recommended!

[Flavivs Aetivs]

With the Addition of Stirrups in the 5th century, would this have been easier at all? And how did the saddles change in comparison?

Just curious here.

[Alanus]

Nathan & Evan,

Someone more knowledgeable than I can answer that, but not me. I'm wondering the same thing, especially when the "standard" wooden steppe saddle appeared. We see its decendant in the Medieval saddle and modern Portugese saddle. :?:

[Vindex]

With the Addition of Stirrups in the 5th century, would this have been easier at all? And how did the saddles change in comparison?

Just curious here.

Not really. Saddle shapes change but the horse doesn't. It is probably easier for a long backed horse (and mares) but it still puts a lot of pressure on the vertebrae at the back of the horse where the back muscles' structure is changing to account for the rear legs and haunches.

As a matter of interest, one of the symbols for the Knights Templar, Pegasus, is reputed to come from the idea that the "poor knights" could not afford more than one horse and often had to share. Two knights clad in their white surcoats are said to have resembled the two wings of the fabled horse. It must have been a very strong horse to carry two knights in mail and with weapons, but the Iberian breed types (my own preference for a standard Roman horse) are sturdy beasts! The parades in modern Spain still show ladies sitting aside on the quarters of these fabulous horses behind their caballeros.

Alanus: The higher backed saddles and straight cantles rather than horns wouldn't change the physical properties of the saddle much except perhaps making it even more uncomfortable for the unfortunate pillion.

[Nathan Ross]

one of the symbols for the Knights Templar, Pegasus, is reputed to come from the idea that the "poor knights" could not afford more than one horse and often had to share...

I do remember that, now you mention it:



Interestingly, the saddle here is the high medieval type and the 'passenger' is mounted ahead of it, across the withers... Can't imagine they rode all the way to Acre like that!

[Alanus]

When they got to Acre, the front guy had a squeeky little voice. :woot:

[Vindex]

one of the symbols for the Knights Templar, Pegasus, is reputed to come from the idea that the "poor knights" could not afford more than one horse and often had to share...

I do remember that, now you mention it:



Interestingly, the saddle here is the high medieval type and the 'passenger' is mounted ahead of it, across the withers... Can't imagine they rode all the way to Acre like that!

As I said above, you can ride across the front of the horse if it is strong and balanced - probably better for the horse than across it's loins to be fair. But the front "pillion" would certainly have the withers to contend with!! (nuff said I think!)