When did the Roman Empire fall (your thoughts)?

[Theodosius the Great]

Marja et Tim,

You both seem to be focused on troop numbers while overlooking quality. How long do you think it takes to train raw recruits into a formidable force? At minimum?

It didn't keep Caesar and Pompeius from recruiting.

And why did Pompey lose with his vastly superior force? Because Caesar's troops were battle-hardened veterans with ten years experience. And both men, IIRC, resorted to recruiting non-citizens. Even before the civil war Caesar enrolled barbarians into Legio V 'Alaudae'.

Of course, the late imperial Roman army was probably larger than the opposing late republican Roman armies in any of those conflicts.

I think you've found your answer. The civil wars of the fourth century were more destructive than any from the preceding centuries. Bigger wars = bigger losses.

P.S. I don't think this was a good idea. A few modern historians have suggested that the losses at the Frigidus may have prompted some of the revolts after the death of Theodosius.

The worst idea came after Stilicho was executed. Olympius had the federate troops' families massacred which promted the soldiers to switch allegiance to Alaric. (Zosimus, book V.)

The soldiers who were in the city, on hearing of the death of Stilico, fell upon all the women and children in the city, who belonged to the Barbarians. Having, as by a preconcerted signal, destroyed every individual of them, they plundered them of all they possessed. When this was known to the relations of those who were murdered, they assembled together from all quarters. Being highly incensed against the Romans for so impious a breach of the promises they had made in the presence of the gods, they all resolved to join with Alaric, and to assist him in a war against Rome. Having therefore collected to the number of thirty thousand men, they fixed themselves in whatever place they pleased.


~Theo