When did the Roman Empire fall (your thoughts)?

[sonic]

After Adrianople there were two major defeats for the Western army. In 388 Theodosius defeated the West in a hard-fought civil war at the Battle of the Save, during the course of which large numbers of Western troops were lost. As if that wasn't enough, in 394 there was another civil war during which even more Western troops were killed at the Battle of the Frigidus. These two major defeats for the West was the major cause of the West's manpower shortages.

But for centuries, defeats caused only temporary shortages. Until the fifth century it seems.

Possibly, but earlier defeats were against an 'external' enemy, with a perceived threat to Rome. When the battles are jumped-up generals fighting each other for political power, would people in the West want to sign up?