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Parthian/Sassanid heavy cavalry use bamboo lances?
#1
Their borders of their eastern satrapcies were with or near India. Is their any evidence of bamboo lances, perhaps by the Eastern nobility?
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#2
I was discussing this recently with some friends and I then thought to remember finds of bamboo arrow shafts. I haven't been able to look it up again, still, but if I remember right I think I saw them in the Dura reports.
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Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#3
And sometimes you can find a map that pushes boundaries of Sassanid empire more or less beyond the River Indus area.I think I even came across a mention of the kings making campaigns to India...but I'm not sure if it was the real India or just some territory nearby.On the other hand Indian mercenaries and allies certainly served in the sassanid army and met in battle with the Romans.
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#4
I have a feeling I might have had something to do with this topic with a photo of my new lance a few weeks back :mrgreen:

I do not know for certain what they were made of. However, bamboo was the material of choice for various Islamic dynasty (the Munyat-ul Ghuzat even goes so far as to specify how the bamboo should be grown and what colour it should be, and up to how many cracks can be allowed!) and used by the pre-Islamic Arabs, Indians, and Sogdians for pole weapons. Also bear in mind the flourishing trade network between Iran, China, Arabia, India, and Central Asia, not only by the Silk Route by the Indian Ocean and Persian gulf as well.

Bamboo is ideal lance material - it is light, strong, stiff (but can flex if needed), and you don't need to shape it to make a shaft - they're already long tapered cylinders! So I would be rather surprised if the Sasanians and Arsacids didn't use them, although I stress that I can't know for certain.


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Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#5
Bamboo grows long, and would be considerably faster to grow thousands. In a single season you could get shafts 3 meters long given the right climate. An ash pole that long would take several years.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#6
The lance was too unwieldy for cavalryman to use especially Sassanid cavalrymen when they have to use bow, sword and mace or battle axe.
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#7
wat

Lances are all over iconography and written records referring to the Arsacids and Sasanians ...
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#8
Not only did Sasanians use the lance, but they used it couched.

[attachment=9358]ardashirvsardavaniv.jpg[/attachment]


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Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#9
I found that reference to the unit in the 10th century. It's a unit of Theodosiaci (there were several Theodosian Legions, so no clue which one) and a unit of Victores in the 500's/600's AD were part of the Garrisons in Rome and Ravenna respectively, and both units returned to Italy in 935 as part of an expeditionary force.

Source: Ross Cowan "The Longest Lived Legion"
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#10
This doesn't look like couched since rider use both hands.

Bamboo lance is great idea! This reminded me hollowed lances of late medieval knights. Bamboo is strong and light, easy to manage on horse. It would be fascinating to hear about some evidence of it.
posted by Semih Koyuncu

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#11
The term "couching" involves tucking the weapon under the arm so the attacker can use part of the horse's momentum in the attack. This is exactly what is occurring. How is the second hand relevant?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#12
Wait I thought the couched lance couldn't be used until the advent of the Stirrup in Roman and Sassanian Cavalry c.a. 550 AD?
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#13
The requirement of stirrups for couched lance combat is an outdated idea proposed by Lynn White in 1962 to support his feudalism theory. It has been discredited for a couple of decades. This might be worth reading.
http://www.classicalfencing.com/articles/shock.php
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#14
Quote:The term "couching" involves tucking the weapon under the arm so the attacker can use part of the horse's momentum in the attack. This is exactly what is occurring. How is the second hand relevant?

I have never encounter a two hand couched lance in any kind. There is however two hand usage of long lances. Also, in the plate, the character's elbow is away from his body indicating that lance is not tucked between arm and body of rider. Like this one;

[Image: Einhard_vita-karoli_13th-cent.jpg]

There is no projecting part of lance. I think, Sassanian rider is holding the end of lance and trusting with both hands there.
posted by Semih Koyuncu

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#15
Here is a Roman with a couched lance.


[attachment=9360]TombstoneofValeriusMaxantius.jpg[/attachment]


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Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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