Possible fragment of Lorica Segmentata?

[jimmynmu]

Does anyone know if this piece is in fact a fragment of Lorica Segmentata? I was told that it is, one that was possibly damaged in battle, but I have also heard differing opinions. One person noted that the hinges on this type of armour were usually made of a different material than the plate, which doesn't seem to be the case with this piece. It is roughly 5cm in width.





Any help would be great!

[PhilusEstilius]

I am not so sure of this being from a segmentata but then what is the provenance of this piece.

[jimmynmu]

It was found in central Europe. The dealer I got it from said he purchased it in Vienna, so it was found somewhere around there I assume, although probably not in Austria itself. I will ask him for more specific details.

I can return the piece if I find out it isn't even a piece of Roman armour.

[S. Marcer]

Hello,
I'm not an expert on this subject but, as a start, you can compare your piece with the material presented in this publication here

Best!
S.M.

[Quintius Clavus]

Looking at your photo attached, it looks like the hinge-plate and the rivets are iron (ferrous material) as is the plate. It looks like the entire item is made of iron.

To the best of my knowledge, the armor we know as Lorica Segmentata had iron plates but the hinges/buckle plates and rivets, etc. were of copper-alloy (bronze or brass). I have personally seen part of the Corbridge Hoard armor and have seen photos of other confirmed artifacts - like the Kalkriese collar plate, the Bank of London collar section and more recent finds. The iron plate would be like your image above, but the copper-alloy will likely be green or if the conditions were right might still be golden in color. Definitely take a look via the link provided to Bishop & Coulston's Roman Military Equipment. My copy of the book includes photos.

You have the physical object, but the fact that the metal used for the hinges, rivets etc. was not the same as for the armor itself, might lead to questioning its identification.

[jimmynmu]

Thank you for the help everyone. I have some more information from the dealer. He says that it was found in the former province of Pannonia from a place that is known to be a border guard garrison. He also believes that it was locally repaired or manufactured.

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

This is the problem with buying items that have no provenance. It could be a repaired hinge from a segmentata but it could also be part of a lid from WW1, or anything in between. On what is the dealer basing his information on? There is no value to the piece now because it has no historical context to tell its story. Where it was found, what was found with it... It's not like a coin that can tell a story on it's own by its legends and mint marks. If you read the articles linked here and on the other message board you posted on you would see that your piece doesn't match any of the known examples that are published. For me I would send it back.

[jimmynmu]

On what is the dealer basing his information on? There is no value to the piece now because it has no historical context to tell its story. Where it was found, what was found with it...

It was found in a site where there were known border forts, and thus a known roman military presence, which provides some historical context. The dealer is basing his information from the (he claims trusted) people he acquired it from and has consulted several people about it--not fool proof by any means but it could very well be authentic, and if I find strong reason to believe so then I will accept the gamble, especially knowing that I can return the piece at any time if it turns out to not be what it is claimed to be. I appreciate your opinion and advice and I recognize that it doesn't match up with the known discoveries but I am not going to end the investigation just yet. I am curious for more information, if not for whether or not I keep the piece, but also to understand the history of the period as well.

[PhilusEstilius]

James.

There is a question we have to ask ourselves with regard to a segmentata and that is just what part is it supposed to be, for the only area having hinges has to be the upper area of the armour and at 5cm wide it appears to be a bit narrow for that plus the fact of its iron hinge where I think it should be brass or bronze. I just have to say again it does not look to be from a segmentata at all and as you say there is only assumtion to go on it has no prvenance send it back.

[jimmynmu]

Thanks for the concern but like I said earlier I would like to learn as much as I can about the piece before I end my ownership of the item. It has made me curious and I would like to continue brainstorming on what it might actually be.

Good point concerning the hinge and how it should be some kind of shoulder piece. It is fair to say that this piece is not a traditional mass produced piece of Lorica Segmentata. I think it can be said safely that this was almost certainly not worn (if it is armour) by a legionary.

from Wikipedia concerning the battle of the Teutoberg forest:

Additionally, several thousand Germanic soldiers were deserting militiamen who wore Roman armour (which would thus show up as "Roman" in the archaeological digs)

Perhaps this is a piece of hastily repaired or home made armour worn either by auxillary (somewhat doubtful, I assume they were more professional), Roman militia of some kind, or even a Germanic person who deserted from the Romans and had armour that need repair. If this piece is from antiquity it will forever bother me that I don't know what it is! But this is the disapointing reality with so many ancient objects.

[Caratacus]

The main problem I might have for this item is the shape. The shoulder hinges of lorica segmentata armour were generally of lobate form, with curved volutes at the top. There were other hinged buckles as well (e.g. connecting the upper chest and back plates on each side). This doesn't look much like any of them.

This is not to say that the hinge here could NOT have been a component of the armour. The square form is rare but not unknown (I know of one from Usk, for example). They are often regarded as being clumsy repairs using whatever material was to hand. The diagonal shape at the base argues that this might well have been some scrap metal that was available and could be used.

Of course, it could be a hinge from something like a wooden box!

Mike Thomas
(Caratacus)