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Another caltrop thread
#16
You're right! I did not look closely enough at the curvature of the ones right next to the grenade. Less high, but straight up all the same.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#17
And naturally, these are no longer in mint condition. Any of them could be straightened up to be sharp point up. What I was originally looking at was that three of the points/junctions were clearly different from the fourth. Gives the impression that the 3 were either split (a pain to do) or that they were flat welded together to make the 4th point.

In other words, not the same as the way I've made them, splitting on both ends of a flat bar. Btw, how tall do you suppose these are?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#18
I would guess each prong would be no longer then 4 cm. Also think these three pieces were forgewelded to a single point, because if there had been enough stock to do a three way split, there would also have been enough to do a two way split at each end, which like you say, is much easier.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#19
I learned about the 3way split when I tried to make a 3 tined fork. Yikes, I learned a lot about how precise it has to be. Something even smaller would be that much harder to do. I favor your idea of the 3 pieces welded together, with respect to the ones shown next to the "Grenade" pottery.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#20
As someone who makes, and blacksmithing partner makes, tons of caltrops the most obvious way is to split both ends to the middle, which may very well be how these where made in this picture. I know it does not appear that way but it is easy to hide bend metal to look less like a split and more like a singel piece. However I lean much more towards the theory that these where forge welded togther in two pices either as an "x" as robert said or as two "L"s. It seems ridiculous that three prongs would be welded togehter at one point and it does not look that way to me. Welding three sides is an impracticle technique as when you hammer two togther, the third splits away. Forge welding is the majority of my work and most of what I work with is low carbon (historical iron/steels), higher carbon steels and welding the like.
I can also confidently state that it is probably easier to forge weld to pieces together than it is to split twice. these welds are very simple and most people fear forge welding and think it is so difficult because people associate forge welding with pattern welding and making swords. This means 100% of your welds have to be solid and hold through heat treatments, battle testing, and really for asthetics. These dont have to go through such rigorous work. they are crude and can be made in a quick and efficient matter in this form.
Underhill Edge

Hand forged edged tools, blades, and functioning historical reproductions.

underhilledge.com

Jack McAuliffe
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#21
If you weld them in a X shape, would you anneal them, or quench them before moving on to the points? I'm presuming if you're making a batch, you'd do the first step on all, then the second step on all. Am I thinking right? Or would it matter that much?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#22
Quote:As someone who makes, and blacksmithing partner makes, tons of caltrops the most obvious way is to split both ends to the middle, which may very well be how these where made in this picture. I know it does not appear that way but it is easy to hide bend metal to look less like a split and more like a singel piece. However I lean much more towards the theory that these where forge welded togther in two pices either as an "x" as robert said or as two "L"s. It seems ridiculous that three prongs would be welded togehter at one point and it does not look that way to me. Welding three sides is an impracticle technique as when you hammer two togther, the third splits away. Forge welding is the majority of my work and most of what I work with is low carbon (historical iron/steels), higher carbon steels and welding the like.
I can also confidently state that it is probably easier to forge weld to pieces together than it is to split twice. these welds are very simple and most people fear forge welding and think it is so difficult because people associate forge welding with pattern welding and making swords. This means 100% of your welds have to be solid and hold through heat treatments, battle testing, and really for asthetics. These dont have to go through such rigorous work. they are crude and can be made in a quick and efficient matter in this form.

I apologize if this sounds incoherent and pompous in some respects. I am on a few heavy pain killers for my tooth right now. I hope you all understood the gist of what I was explaining and don't take it as an attack on anyone's theory.

As for the annealing, the weld could or could not be annealed. The steel is unlikely high carbon so it would not effect strength. Higher carbon steels are too valued for real tools to be thrown out on a battlefield to stop feet and hooves. making tons in a batch, it is probably best to weld, bend and be done.
Underhill Edge

Hand forged edged tools, blades, and functioning historical reproductions.

underhilledge.com

Jack McAuliffe
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#23
I like Caltrops and have even found a way to make some that can be used for combat demonstrations
without hurting anyone. They are made from a racket ball with foam points and duct tape. They will slow down an attacking formation as they are uncomfortable to step on.
[attachment=5385]caltrop.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=5386]c2.jpg[/attachment]


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John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
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