Centurion\'s Orderly?

[Nathan Ross]

Is there any evidence for centurions having orderlies? I mean a soldier of the century who would act as a personal assistant and messenger - a valet or batman in the British parlance. In camp there would be slaves to cook and clean and run errands, but what about on the march, or on campaign?

Optio is sometimes translated as orderly, but this doesn't seem to be the same sort of thing.

All I can find is a reference in the Bible (Acts) to the centurion Cornelius having 'a devout soldier who attended upon him', sometimes translated as 'orderly', but I don't know what this might have referred to.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Probably not. They could have slaves, as could any legionary, but a real orderly ?

Maybe someone was assigned to duty for an officer, but he then would have to assume the role of an Immunis as far as I know.

M.VIB.M.

[PhilusEstilius]

Nathan.

This becomes a very interesting subject and indeed like myself there must be others who at times wonder, just what was the relationship between the centurian and those ten rooms next to his place.
I have had ideas of just how was guard duty sorted out or was it just a case where the centurian could walk into the first room and hold the back of his hand against his hip with palm horizontal amd say "I am looking for 8 men for duty tonight"

Then his palm would be crossed with 8 coins so then he would move on to the next room and so on, but then as we do know there were at later times the immunis so did he at some time select a soldier who had a reasonable amount of interest to grovel and eventually proper. Indeed we have to ask just how were the optio's selected other than by the man they were going to work for.
It is a situation where all those 80 men were there at his beck and call and any who were problems would be on constant bog cleaning or street sweeping in camp he must surely have had a few favorates I'm sure.

[Titus Thurinus]

I found an interesting theory about another Centurion in the Bible that may shed some light on this. This site purportes that the Greek word in Mathew and Luke, Paise, actually means "gay lover". I do not know if this applies to your situation but it offers a possibility that this other soldier you are referring to filled the same role.

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Gay-Centurion.html

[Nathan Ross]

This site purportes that the Greek word in Mathew and Luke, Paise, actually means "gay lover".

mile: Interesting idea! It's possible, although the site gets rather too excited by the prospect. As it says, 'traditionalists cannot prove their contention, that the centurion and his pais-servant, were not same sex lovers. It is equally impossible to prove to everyone’s satisfaction, that this was a gay centurion and his pais-beloved-gay lover.'

Not a lot of satisfaction to be had, then! Plus, of course, 'gay' has little meaning in the context of antiquity anyway...

This forum has a more informed short debate on the uses of pais in this context - seems it means 'boy', with all the range of connotations that our english word has.

Meanwhile, back to the subject of orderlies with more military functions!:

all those 80 men were there at his beck and call and any who were problems would be on constant bog cleaning or street sweeping in camp he must surely have had a few favorates I'm sure.

Yes - if we assume that the centurion was responsible for selecting the immunes, there would certainly be quite a few men in the century more than ready to jump when he said jump! Corruption in the centurionate is also well attested, I believe.

Michael J Taylor ('Records on Bark, Sherds and Papyri', AW Special 2010) mentions exacti, or clerks, but only at legion and not century level. The signifer seems to have been responsible for most admin tasks within the century. So the signifer, plus the camp slaves and various delegated legionaries, might have covered all the tasks associated with an 'orderly'.

The Dura Europos 'morning reports' for Cohors XX Palyrrenorum list, amongst the immunes of the cohort, an aedituus and a sacerdos - these presumably have some religious function, but I wonder if there be other posts or job-titles that would relate more to a centurion's assistant - something from the Vindolanda tablets, perhaps?

[Titus Manlius Verus]

Perhaps a chain of command was established. The centurion was the man in charge of the century. In turn he took orders and answered directly to the primus pilus or the Tribunes. To help with the work load of reports, requests, etc. he delegated to the optio who, would be promoted to centurion upon the vacancy of the position, had to be literate himself. The optio would work with the signifer, who, would propibally be the "manager" of the other clerks, and the slaves who worked as clerks/assistance themeselves. The Roman system was, afterall, a bureacuracy, and this would fit the system.

By the way, what then was the purpose of the cornicularis in this system?

[NightHunter24]

Ave Tite et omnes!

You asked about the role that the cornicularius played in the system and as I was curious myself I came across this:
"Cornicularius : a senior rank below the rank of centurion, the cornicularius was the chief clerk, in charge of the tabularium"

I found here: http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/reference/ranks.shtml.

[Titus Manlius Verus]

See, that's interesting because I thought the Aquilifer and the Imagnifer would be the senior clerks as they are the two most senior standard-bearers.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Not all standard bearers and not all Immunes were clerks.

But almost all soldiers were in some form or other literate.

M.VIB.M.

[M. Demetrius]

That link wouldn't open, Julio, could you check that, please? I'd love to see a listing of the various ranks from a reliable source.

[agrimensor]

It might be that the Cornicularis kept the books of the century ( with help of a clerk immunis) while the aquilifer and imagifer kept it for the legion and cohortes.
So they must have been the more senior clerks. it is just a thought.

[Kegluneq]

That link wouldn't open, Julio, could you check that, please? I'd love to see a listing of the various ranks from a reliable source.

The url opens with an errant full stop at the end - delete this and the page opens fine.

[Nathan Ross]

It might be that the Cornicularis kept the books of the century ( with help of a clerk immunis) while the aquilifer and imagifer kept it for the legion and cohortes.

The cornicularius was the senior clerk of the legion, although there were other cornicularii for most grades of senior officer as well (a cornicularius tribuni and a cornicularius consularis).

So at cohort and legion level, these men would head the offices. Perhaps the reason that the signifer kept the books at century level was because there was no other clerk who would do it. I have heard of a cornicularius centuriae, but can't find any definite references to it.

[M. Demetrius]

The url opens with an errant full stop at the end

Thanks so much!