Centurion insignia around 200 AD

[Flavius Promotus]

Hi folks,<br>
do we have any iconographical evidence, how centurions looked around 200 AD ? The question of helmet and cresta is especially important. I was wondering, whether a Nidermoermter with a cresta might have looked too idiculolus...<br>
Any reliefs, paintings, etc. ?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
FLAVIUS PROMOTUS <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flaviuspromotus@romanarmytalk>FLAVIUS PROMOTUS</A> at: 12/14/03 4:57 pm<br></i>

[Publius Aelius Lucius]

hi
an interesting asks before long time emerged there :wink: perhaps gives it today answers on it :?: I am very much interested in it :!:
and it still gave which indications of its command authority in the 3rd century :?:

[Peroni]

Of the two surviving Niedermoermter Italic H types, the Mouse and loaf helmet from the Guttmann collection (AG800) is the only one that has a fitment to accommodate any form of crest attachment.

It is in the form of a ring, and could be used to attach a horsehair plume.

Nothing that I can see to stop you using either of the Italic D types (Mainz and Krefeld) though! :wink:

[Titus Martius]

Of the two surviving Niedermoermter Italic H types, the Mouse and loaf helmet from the Guttmann collection (AG800) is the only one that has a fitment to accommodate any form of crest attachment.

It is in the form of a ring, and could be used to attach a horsehair plume.

What about Imperial Italic H 5 (Wijk bij Duurstede)? It has Imperial Gallic like crest holder...

[Peroni]

Martin,

Ah! yes, I'd forgotten that one!

I'm not entirely convinced of it's given typology, but it would seem to fit with the period. Looks more like a typical third Century Aux cavalry or infantry type to me.

[Titus Martius]

Martin,

Ah! yes, I'd forgotten that one!

I'm not entirely convinced of it's given typology, but it would seem to fit with the period. Looks more like a typical third Century Aux cavalry or infantry type to me.

I have only two pictures of this helmet, here is second. Unfortunately I don't have more informations about it, however it would be suitable for late 2nd and early 3rd century centurion impression with crest...

[Mithras]

Florian, try Bishop & Coulston's RME2, in the colour plate section (plate eight) is a bronze buckle in the shape of a Nidermoermter with a full size crest!

It is the only one as far as I know - but sets a precedent. Centurion's transverse crest should therefore not be ruled out.

Also, I would opt for a longer vitus than the Principate, tending toward the 4thC waist high staffs.

As you well know, the whole 3rd C is a transition period - but that is why we love it so much!

[Tarbicus]

Why does everyone assume that a transverse creast means 'centurion'?

FIt is the only one as far as I know - but sets a precedent.

Plate 8(b) in B&C2 is possibly a Niedermormter, but not definitely, especially as the cheek piece extends to cover the ears with the usual ear coverings seen on cavalry helmets. It's also a brooch.

And, the crest on that B&C2 helmet representation goes from front to back, not transverse.

All it says is a cavalry helm had a crest running front to back.
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... ederbieber

[Publius Aelius Lucius]

Also, I would opt for a longer vitus than the Principate, tending toward the 4thC waist high staffs.

which would be to be considered :wink:
or different colour one clothes :?: but in the heat of combat.....
to say too few helmets found around more details :roll: