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Calling all Archers
#16
I have and use a thumb ring. My thumb ring is the bronze one made by Grozney and sold by Quicks in the UK. It looks just like the horn ring in the picture but made of bronze.<br>
If you use a thumb ring you have to put the arrow on the "wrong" side of the bow. As a right hander this means it is put on the right side of the bow instead of the normal left side of the bow. This is because the thumb release is the other way round to the Mediterranean release. In the Mediterranean release the fingers which hold the string open in a clockwise direction where as with a thumb release they open in an anticlockwise direction.<br>
I don't use a bracer and normally I don't need one with a Composite recurve but I have loosed badly once and it really hurt.<br>
One thing I have found and I may well be doing it wrong but with a thumb release you cannot hold the arrow in position on the string. I find if the nock is too large the arrow just falls off. My old bowstring was larger diameter so all my arrows gripped OK but I bought a new string and now most of my arrows fall off.<br>
With a powerful bow the thumb release can put a lot of strain on the thumb and when I fist tried it my thumb hurt for a week.<br>
<br>
On the subject of roman bows I will repeat what I have said in the past. The only evidence for roman bows is the bone plates from the end of a composite recurve bow so that is the only type of bow you can use and say this is what the romans used.<br>
There are several makes of composite recurve bows mad in Hungry which are very like the roman bows. Grozney is the best known and probably the best made as well. But I bought a very nice bow at a Kirby hall for only £110 and at Stoneley this year there was a bow maker with some nice bows for £45-£125. I think you dont actually need to have a bow with bone ends as long as it is of the same patten as the ones with the bone ends. The bone is a de-lux version and the all wood end versions would not have survived. I just bought a Grozney bow with bone ends off Ebay for £89 so Its worth looking there for a bow. New this bow should cost about £275 <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
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#17
Aliuscladiusmaximus - If I were to have a composite bow commissioned right now, where would you recommend I go? Horn ends or wood ends - doesn't matter. Who makes these things!!!<br>
<br>
Many thanks in advance!<br>
<p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/[email protected]>Mithras</A> at: 11/22/03 10:35 pm<br></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#18
I dont Know where you would get a Sniew and Horn Composite bow mine have glassfiber limbs under the coverings. The only Sniew bow I know of was made for the ESG about 8 years ago. I think it was make by a official in a national archery society in the UK. I believe he has stopped making them now.<br>
<br>
A Sinew and Horn bow is a pain in the neck as you have too look after them very carfuly. You cannot let them get wet, you mustn't keep them strung for more than a few days, If you twist them while stringing they are ruined, You have to warm the limbs before you string them and then bind them onto curved formers so they will take the correct shape.<br>
I suggest a Grozer bow although there are other Hungarian Bowmakers out there. There is a Grozner on Ebay at the moment £100 the last time I looked. I got one with Horn ends and grip for £89 a couple of mounths ago.<br>
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISA...egory=1291<br>
regards Aluscladiusmaximus <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
Reply
#19
Regarding composite bows, I found this Finnish bowyer ([url=http://www.traditional-archery-scandinavia.com/englisch/englisch.html" target="top]Traditional Archery[/url]), but I'm no expert on Roman bows. Could someone suggest a reasonable match for a Roman composite bow from this site? Both the Old Scythian and Assyrian bows look 'right' to me, both strung and unstrung (looking at primary sources).<br>
<br>
I'd be interested in opinions of these composite bows ... <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/[email protected]>Mithras</A> at: 12/2/03 1:30 am<br></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
Reply
#20
The best match to the shape of the roman finds is the adult Scythian bow<br>
www.traditional-archery-s...hian3.html<br>
<br>
The old Scythian bow has the wrong ends to the limbs.<br>
<br>
The Hungarian bows<br>
<br>
www.traditional-archery-s...yar11.html<br>
<br>
are pretty good as well this is the bow I have.<br>
These bows are Grozer bows made in Hungry, the person who has the website is not the maker of these bows. There are agents for Grozer bows in USA and UK so it may be cheaper to get them locally, Import duty and VAT could easily add 20% to the price if you are in the UK.<br>
Grozer has a website where he sells his bows<br>
<br>
www.grozerarchery.com<br>
<br>
You don't want a bow which has "ears" on the end of the limb to stop the bow string slipping off the side. The Turkish and Mongolian bows have these "ears"<br>
<br>
The website has some nice arrow heads if you want to make your own arrows.<br>
<br>
Aluscladiusmaximus <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
Reply
#21
Thanks Alus, that really is alot of help! <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
Reply
#22
For those experienced archers - what draw weight would you recommend for an inexperienced adult archer? I'm reasonably fit.<br>
<br>
How does a maker like Grozer vary the draw weight of the bow? <p></p><i></i>
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#23
hi all!<br>
<br>
reg.: arrows jumping off when using a thumb ring<br>
<br>
put your index finger ON the arrow and use the middle finger to lock your thumb<br>
<br>
reg.: bracer - always use one unless you like to hurt yourself or if u are a really tough bone<br>
<br>
reg.: drawweight: i would opt for no more than 30 - 35 lbs for an untrained adult, especially if you want to learn to shoot it; but....it depends, check it out<br>
<br>
reg.: different drawweights on bows; usually the drawweight depends on the strenght/diameter of the material used<br>
<br>
reg.: Grozer bows: I am convinced that the horn or bone plates can be attached to a standard bow wothout them; this is going to be my nex project; when using a Magyar bow tell the audience what it is, even if the basic look is more or less correct<br>
<br>
reg.: don't waste money on horn and sinew bows unless you have it in abundance; the difficulties of handling them have been explained up above quiet well<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
Frank <p></p><i></i>
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#24
If you aren't going to shoot arrows at people I would personally recommend a 40-45lb bow. If you are reasonably fit you should have no trouble pulling this strength of bow and holding it while you aim. With the lower power bows the arrows travel too slow to be dramatic and the trajectory is too high.<br>
I normally use a 60lb bow and the arrows get to the target noticeably sooner than from the 45lbs bows. I have just bought a Grozner 45lb bow because it has horn re-enforcements on the ends so it looks more authentic. Now I have two bows I may well make and fit bone ends to my other bow.<br>
<br>
I believe bowmakers alter the power of bows by changing the thickness of the glass fiber.<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/overyom...chery.html<br>
<br>
<br>
I have tried my hand at roman arrows. The shape of the fletchings is my best guess at the shape from the only roman arrow found. The original arrow was for thumb ring release as the fletchings are much further back than for the Mediterranean release. I have moved the fletchings forward so I can use them for either release<br>
<br>
Alus cladius maximus <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
Reply
#25
Thanks for the information on the draw weight, and the link to your arrows.<br>
<br>
Do you carve a groove to inset the fletchings? And what type of arrow heads do you use, both for practice and display? I've purchased some Roman bronze tri-blade arrowheads off eBay, but seen no reproductions of similar items. <p></p><i></i>
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#26
The fletchings are glued on using a jig. This consists of a rest for the arrow with a flat piece of metal which goes into the knock and can be rotated in 120 degree steps. and a large bulldog clip which is held in place with a magnet. I bought mine from Quicks in the UK but they can be bought from any good archery shop. The bulldog clip holds the feather in place while the glue drys. The feathers are like a "T" so there is a flat bit to glue onto the shaft.<br>
<br>
There are a lot of tri-bladed arrowheads on Ebay but most of them I think are hunting heads . The shafts I am using are 11/32 (10mm) approx. I saw some of the these heads in a local shop and they were made for 4 to 6 mm shafts. If you look in Bishop and Cousterns book on Military equipment there are lots of drawings of roman military arrow heads. They seem to be either Tri bladed of square bodkin points. Most of them in the 1st century seem to be tanged rather than socketed. I have not yet got heads for my arrows. I should be able to make the Iron tanged bodkins on my lathe and then hammer them into a flat pyrimid. the tribladed ones I will either get some cast or buy some of the iron/bronze reproductions. Eagle archery sell them in the UK for about £9 each or that Norwegian site sells them for $6 each. I would ideally like to see one in my hand before I bought 12 for the arrows I am making. I normally shoot modern "longbow" wooden arrows as you lose or break quite a few and making my own arrows is time consuming. I am making the authentic arrows so I have some correct ones to show the public. I will shoot them just to see how well they work but I don't intend to shoot them often. I usually shoot about 25 arrows in a display. <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
Reply
#27
< am making the authentic arrows so I have some correct ones to show the public.><br>
<br>
This is what I was wanting to do also, although displays may be a bit far off for the group I am in (newly formed). I would, like you, probably want to shoot a few for the fun of it though.<br>
<br>
I was curious about the tanged heads, would you split the ends of the arrow shafts, insert the tangs, and then bind them with linen thread or sinew? Or would you drill a hole down the center and insrt the tangs? I'm guessing the former. <p></p><i></i>
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#28
Avete, omnes!<br>
<br>
Decebalus wrote:<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>I was curious about the tanged heads, would you split the ends of the arrow shafts, insert the tangs, and then bind them with linen thread or sinew? Or would you drill a hole down the center and insrt the tangs? I'm guessing the former. <hr><br>
<br>
Splitting the ends of the arrow-stave will effectively make this a one-shot arrow - even if you are shooting into a soft target. I would suggest drilling the hole for the head.<br>
<br>
When I was making some arrows with a friend from Kazakhstan several years ago, he showed me how his grandfather would use a heated metal rod to <em>burn</em> the hole into the arrow. These arrows held up to use very nicely.<br>
<br>
I can't provenance this technique for Roman reenactment, but it does work rather well.<br>
<br>
Scythius <p>LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
<br>
- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>
Adam MacDonald

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org">www.legio-ix-hispana.org
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#29
I was intending to drill the hole in the end of the arrow for just that reason. I am also going to put a small washer under the head to make it more difficult for the head to cut into the shaft. I intend using mu lathe to drill the holes so they are in the middle and parallel to the shaft.<br>
Burning the holes to the final size is a good idea as burning doesn't damage the structure of the wood the way drilling does. I frequently burn heads on to shafts and handles.<br>
<br>
I have been making some patterns for casting out of sheet brass. I have made the heads to the correct size of the finds but they seem very small compared to the size of the shaft. I am using 11/32 (9mm) shafts and the heads are only 13mm diameter<br>
<br>
I have finally found a picture of the tombstone from Housesteads which people use as evidence for Hamian archers in the UK. The re-enactors seem to always wear a long tunic down to their ankles. I have always thought this totally impractical in the UK. Long tunics are OK for hot dry countries where nothing grows but in UK they would get wet and catch on brambles, thistles and undergrowth. The figure on the tombstone is wearing a standard thigh length tunic, so I don't know where they get the idea they wore long tunics. They also wear conical helmets from the same tombstone. What the figure is wearing could be a conical helmet but it could also be a hat. I seems to come too far down the head for a helmet. All the conical helmets I have seen re-enactors wear have bowls where the bottom is flat and parallel with the ground.<br>
<br>
I have put a picture on my website on page two<br>
<br>
[url=http://www.geocities.com/overyom/Roman_Archery_2.html" target="top]www.geocities.com/overyom/Roman_Archery_2.html[/url] <p></p><i></i>
Bernard Jacobs
Any opinion stated is genally not the opinion of My group or Centurian
Reply
#30
Avete, omnes!<br>
<br>
Alus Claudius wrote:<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>I was intending to drill the hole in the end of the arrow for just that reason. I am also going to put a small washer under the head to make it more difficult for the head to cut into the shaft. <hr><br>
<br>
An anthropologist friend of mine (who is also a target archer) spent a few years living in Mongolia - she brought back tons of photos of Mongol armour and weaponry (armor porn!).<br>
<br>
Several of the pictures show quite clearly a leather washer between the head and shaft.<br>
<br>
Again, this cannot be provenenced to any Roman usage, but may be helpful to other archers.<br>
<br>
Scythius <p>LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
<br>
- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>
Adam MacDonald

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org">www.legio-ix-hispana.org
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