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Polybius mistranslation?
#1
Hello to all,

Seeing from many threads that there are multiple examples of mistranslation with ancient works, I am becoming skeptical with our own English copies of Polybius' The Histories. Specifically, I would like to ask anybody proficient in Greek about the accuracy of his passages 3.107-118 (the paragraphs on Cannae).

Matt
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#2
You have to provide the English text in order to check it. There are multiple translations out there most loaded with mistakes as far as military details are concerned, so which one are you interested in?
Macedon
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George C. K.
῾Ηρακλῆος γὰρ ἀνικήτου γένος ἐστέ
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#3
I guess I'll go with the Penelope copy online http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...us/3*.html which is pages 264 to 289 for the relevant passages.
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#4
Hmmm... that's quite a workload, but I will look into it. It surely would have been much easier if you were interested in a few specific points.
Macedon
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George C. K.
῾Ηρακλῆος γὰρ ἀνικήτου γένος ἐστέ
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#5
There are a few points I was looking at, but I am on a rush right now.
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#6
That would be helpful.
Macedon
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George C. K.
῾Ηρακλῆος γὰρ ἀνικήτου γένος ἐστέ
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#7
Ok these are the specific passages I would like consulted. I hope this is much more manageable, it was 3 pages on my word document.

"All through the winter and spring the two armies remained encamped opposite each other, and it was not until the season was advanced enough for them to get supplies from the year's crops that Hannibal moved his forces out of the camp near Geronium. 2 Judging that it was in his interest to compel the enemy to fight by every means in his power, he seized on the citadel of a town called Cannae, 3 in which the Romans had collected the corn and other supplies from the country round Canusium, conveying hence to their camp from time to time enough to supply their wants. 4 The city itself had previously been razed, but the capture now of the citadel and stores caused no little commotion in the Roman army; for they were distressed at the fall of the place 5 not only owing to the loss of their supplies, but because it commanded the surrounding district.

"They decided to bring eight legions into the field, a thing which had never been done before by the Romans, each legion consisting of about five thousand men apart from the allies. 10 For, as I previously explained, they invariably employ four legions, each numbering about four thousand foot and two hundred horse, 11 but on occasions of exceptional gravity they raise the number of foot in each legion to five thousand and that of the cavalry to three hundred. 12 They make the number of the allied infantry equal to that of the Roman legions, but, as a rule, the allied cavalry are three times as numerous as the Roman. 13 They give each of the Consuls half of the allies and two legions when they dispatch them to the field, 14 and most of their wars are decided by one Consul with two legions and the above number of allies, it being only on rare occasions that they employ all their forces at one time and in one battle."

"Next day the Consuls broke up their camp and advanced towards the place where they heard that of the enemy was. Coming in view of them on the second day, they encamped at a distance of about fifty stadiaº from them. 2 Aemilius, seeing that the district round was flat and treeless, was opposed to attacking the enemy there as they were superior in cavalry, his advice being to lure them on by advancing into a country where the battle would be decided rather by the infantry."

"Hannibal met him with his light-armed troops and cavalry and surprising him while still on the march disordered the Romans much. 6 They met, however, the first charge by advancing some of their heavy infantry, and afterwards sending forwards also their javelineers and cavalry got the better in the whole engagement, as the Carthaginians had no considerable covering force, while they themselves had some companies of their legions fighting mixed with the light-armed troops. 7 The fall of night now made them draw off from each other, the attack of the Carthaginians not having had the success they hoped. 8 Next day, Aemilius, who neither judged it advisable to fight nor could now withdraw the army in safety, encamped with two-thirds of it on the bank of the river Aufidus. 9 This is the only river which traverses the Apennines, the long chain of mountains separating all the Italian streams, those on one side descending to the Tyrrhenian sea and those on the other to the Adriatic. The Aufidus, however, runs right through these mountains, having its source on the side of Italy turned to the Tyrrhenian Sea and falling into the Adriatic. 10 For the remaining portion of his army he fortified a position on the farther side of the river, to the east of the ford, at a distance of about •ten stadiaº from his own camp and rather more from that of the enemy, 11 intending thus to cover the foraging parties from his main camp across the river and harass those of the Carthaginians."

"Next day it was Terentius' turn to take the command, and just after sunrise he began to move his forces out of both camps. Crossing the river with those from the larger camp he at once put them in order of battle, drawing up those from the other camp next to them in the same line, the whole army facing south. He stationed the Roman cavalry close to the river on the right wing and the foot next to them in the same line, placing the maniples closer together than was formerly the usage and making the depth of each many times exceed its front. The allied horse he drew up on his left wing, and in front of the whole force at some p281distance he placed his light-armed troops. The whole army, including the allies, numbered about eighty thousand foot and rather more than six thousand horse. Hannibal at the same time sent his slingers and pikemen over the river and stationed them in front, and leading the rest of his forces out of camp he crossed the stream in two places and drew them up opposite the enemy. On his left close to the river he placed his Spanish and Celtic horse facing the Roman cavalry, next these half his heavy-armed Africans, then the Spanish and Celtic infantry, and after them the other half of the Africans, and finally, on his right wing, his Numidian horse. After thus drawing up his whole army in a straight line, he took the central companies of the Spaniards and Celts and advanced with them, keeping rest of them in contact with these companies, but gradually falling off, so as to produce a crescent-shaped formation, the line of the flanking companies growing thinner as it was prolonged, his object being to employ the Africans as a reserve force and to begin the action with the Spaniards and Celts."

"The Roman maniples, pursuing them furiously, easily penetrated the enemy's front, since the Celts were deployed in a thin line while they themselves had crowded up from the wings to the centre where the fighting was going on. For the centres and wings did not come into action simultaneously, but the centres first, as the Celts were drawn up in a crescent and a long way in advance of their wings, the convex face of the crescent being turned towards the enemy. The Romans, however, following up the Celts and pressing on to the centre and that part of the enemy's line which was giving way, progressed so far that they now had the heavy-armed Africans on both of their flanks. Hereupon the Africans on the right wing facing to the left and then beginning from the right charged upon the enemy's flank, while those on the left faced to the right and dressing by the left, did the same, the situation itself indicating to them how to act. The consequence was that, as Hannibal had designed, the Romans, straying too far in pursuit of the Celts, were caught between the two divisions of the enemy, and they now no longer kept their compact formation but turned singly or in companies to deal with the enemy who was falling on their flanks."

"The Romans who were made prisoners were not in the battle for the following reason. Lucius had left a force of ten thousand foot in his own camp, in order that, if Hannibal, neglecting his camp, employed his whole army in the field, they might during the battle gain entrance there and capture all the enemy's baggage: if, on the other hand, Hannibal, guessing this danger, left a strong garrison in the camp, the force opposed to the Romans would be reduced in numbers. The circumstances of their capture were more or less as follows. Hannibal had left an adequate force to guard his camp, and when the battle opened, the Romans, as they had been ordered, delivered an assault on this force. At first they held out, but as they were beginning to be hard pressed, Hannibal, who was now victorious in every part of the field, came to their assistance, and routing the Romans shut them up in their camp. He killed two thousand of them and afterwards made all the rest prisoners. The Numidians also reduced the various strongholds throughout the country which had given shelter to the flying enemy and brought in the fugitives, consisting of about two thousand horse."
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#8
Quote:I guess I'll go with the Penelope copy online http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...us/3*.html which is pages 264 to 289 for the relevant passages.
Bill Thayer has put Paton's Loeb translation online. It has generally been found to be sound, although Paton died before the work went to press, so (I suppose) he had no chance to proof-read etc. The new edition under the guidance of Christian Habicht has ironed out most of the problems. (Unfortunately, I only have vols. 1, 3 & 4 -- your passage appears in vol. 2!)

No student of Polybius should ignore the work of Frank Walbank, which is fundamental and (thankfully) available online here, by clicking the links to "Walbank Commentary".
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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