Help with lamellar shoulder / mantle

[chukissaki]

I am working on a set of lamellar. I have seen photo's on Comitatus and Roman Recruit
( among others ) that have constructed lamellar shirts with a curved mantle at the neck that is connecting to the horizontal rows that run around the body.
As I attempt to curve the neck/ shoulder rows, mine are bunching up ( I have 2 rows laced together .
How are you guys getting the nice curved neck / mantle area ?
This is the type of curve I m talking about...


[attachment=3053]lam.jpg[/attachment]

[John Conyard]

Hi Jim,

I got your emails and will reply but it is the Viking Festival in York and I enjoy it to the full. I will return to normal life next Tuesday.

Do you mean the rigid scale?


[attachment=3055]CIMG6049.jpg[/attachment]


JC

[chukissaki]

Thats the one.

[John Conyard]

These rigid scale armours were made by a chap who was in Comitatus several years ago. As with most scale armours made today, the scales go horizontally around the body, while a “cape” of scales circles the neck. Where they join together extra partial horizontal rows of scales cover the areas left uncovered by “cape”.


[attachment=3087]018.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=3088]019.JPG[/attachment]


I have posted a close up of the arrangement and a similar arrangement on a flexible shirt from DSC. This is somewhat neater, better quality and allows you to see how the partially horizontal rows fit into the “cape”. They are relatively cheap and retail at around $550 direct from DSC. I am sure you would be able to find similar shirts from Al Hamdd Trading Post in their “New Product” section of RAT. Early models had a separate “cape” and body glued together but I understand their latest shirts follow the DSC pattern.


[attachment=3090]020_2012-02-20.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=3089]021_2012-02-20.JPG[/attachment]


Several Comitatus members have made their own easily enough, the cost being dependant on the size of scale and material used. A few weeks ago we were enjoying cutting horn scales and plates are available from http://www.abbeyhorn.co.uk/dept/cow-horn...d01160.htm

Good luck with your project.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Jim,

As I attempt to curve the neck/ shoulder rows, mine are bunching up ( I have 2 rows laced together.

Could you show us a picture of how yours are getting to be 'bunched up' please? I'm not sure I understand how that looks. Below my own squamata, not locked scale or lamellar but with a 'mantle' (I had no idea it would be called that when I made this in 2004-5).
I made the body and 'mantle' separately, stitching them together at one point. I then 'filled in' the gaps with scales - so it's not a 'double layer' of scale on top of scale. However, it's all so locked that I never experienced any 'bunching up', hence my question.
[attachment=3094]LRW2011.jpg[/attachment]

[chukissaki]

I made the horizontal body portion first, and attempted to expand the " neck mantle " from the upper chest and back portions. I am going to make the mantle seperately and then attach it. I will put some pics up later.
Thanks to everyone, esp J. Conyard for the help.

[markusaurelius]

Why not just make the shoulder area horizontal as well? Its not like there is an original that proves it was rounded. Furthermore the iconographic evidence can go both ways, in terms of showing curvature at the neck, or just showing it being horizontal. The romans loved to copy helenistic things, and I could see the scale looking very much like some of the greek style armor, with a simple front and back with attached sides.

[John Conyard]

You could and many have done in the past. Of course you do have the issue of what happens when you get to the top of the shoulder, but you can cover that with a scale gorget.

[chukissaki]

Why not just make the shoulder area horizontal as well? Its not like there is an original that proves it was rounded. Furthermore the iconographic evidence can go both ways, in terms of showing curvature at the neck, or just showing it being horizontal. The romans loved to copy helenistic things, and I could see the scale looking very much like some of the greek style armor, with a simple front and back with attached sides.

I like the cape / mantle look better. I have used the hellenistic style before.
Didn't the hellenistic type die out in the late empire ?

[John Conyard]

Sorry, I thought you were decribing horizontal rows of scale that just go straight up the body.


[attachment=3114]3-Copy.JPG[/attachment]


The shoulder area would then need to be covered by a form of gorget.

However if we are refering to a standard Hellenistic tube and yoke armour then there is some iconographic evidence for their use, at least on Emperors etc., in late antiquity. I think some French groups use them and they make for a very distinctive "in-house" style.

[Thomas V.]

Hello John,

would it be possible to tell me how wide the shoulder part (i.e. the length of three connected scales) of the lamellar cuirass shown in post #307362 is?

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

[Doc]

Robert,

Beautiful squamata. It is the best one I have seen with the central rib. Just out of curiosity, how large as those scales.