Who is this emperor?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmm, was there not rumour he bumped off his brother to take the imperium?

[Lyceum]

It is indeed my favourite Emperor Domitian.

Agreed on both counts!

Romanists tend to have a logic defying anal retentiveness which allows them to do this stuff and actually enjoy it.

At risk of anality hock: - It is interesting to compare the depictions of the Flavians with those of Nero. Vespasian went for a verite look - that punchinello grimace - that, while probably closely resembling the man himself, also set him distinctly apart from Nero's boy-wonder style. Titus's plain face and plump smirk seems to follow the same lead. In the surviving busts of Domitian, though, we see something of the Neronian look creeping back, especially in the hairstyle: distinguishing him from his family, and also reclaiming the grandeur of the great builder, perhaps?

Have you seen the descriptions of Domitian strewn throughout Juvenal book 1 btw? Fascinating character portrait.

It's this sort of detail that makes him one of the most fascinating and attractive Roman emperors, imo. I'm sure he would be much better known if his name wasn't so easy to mispronounce ;-)

See! Proof! there's also a guy one seat over to me in the library here with a few books on.....wait for it....variations on the support structures of roman columns. Mithra!

In Greek statutory we just compare penises.

To be fair I guess he is relatively well known compared to, say, the Severans or Max. Thrax etc but...I mean some of those Juvenal lines re: sleeping with his niece etc were a bit...well...bleurgh.

[Manius Acilius Italicus]

After some sleep and pouring over as many statues of Domitian as I could find, I have to admit I was hasty in judging it not Domitian...it definitely is. Compare the right ear of this partially mutilated statue with one of Titus. Totally different. The modern method of determining if a person matches a likeness or two likenesses are the same person is to have the same angle of features exposed and to eliminate the "differences" before comparing similarities. I have to say I find this the worst likeness of Domitian I could find, but that is just my humble opinion. Could this have been completed near the end of his reign before his murder?

[Nathan Ross]

I have to say I find this the worst likeness of Domitian I could find, but that is just my humble opinion. Could this have been completed near the end of his reign before his murder?

It's certainly idealised and 'heroic' rather than realistic.

Actually, there's another thing that counts towards the identification here: the head turned slightly to the shoulder was intended to suggest a link with Alexander the Great (or so Caracalla apparently believed). It's seen often in imperial statuary, particularly amongst the more vainglorious and/or unhinged emperors. Nero was very fond of it. Vespasian and Titus were not - almost all the busts I've seen of theirs are square-on. This might perhaps have been deliberate, emphasising their plainness and respectability after Neronian excess. Domitian, however, is often shown with a slightly turned head - another bit of Nero-worship, probably, rather than Alexander-emulation.

In Greek statutory we just compare penises.

Not in an anally retentive way I hope.

(couldn't resist that one, sorry...)

[Jona Lendering]

Jona, I would have loved to see the expression on the police-officers face when you said that the bicycle thief was emperor Titus :wink: !

:-D :-D :-D

is it not possible that early portrayals of Domitian were deliberately intended to resemble both Titus and Vespasian?

Good point, very good point.

[D B Campbell]

In my opinion, Titus usually looks very like a young Vespasian, whereas Domitian doesn't. Again, in my opinion, Domitian tends to have a longer nose ... but this one's been broken off. And there's something about his upper lip (slightly protruding?) that his father and brother don't have.

I have just realized that your statue is from Ephesus, Jona. Apparently, Georg Daltrop, Vlrich Hausmann & Max Wegner (Die Flavier, Berlin 1966) already suggested that the face is that of Titus. I'm inclined to think that the reason he is mutilated (and has no nose) is that he represents Domitian.

[magister clarissimus]

I think it is Titus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claud...802523930/ (this coin is also from Ephesus!)

[Jona Lendering]

Apparently, Georg Daltrop, Vlrich Hausmann & Max Wegner (Die Flavier, Berlin 1966) already suggested that the face is that of Titus.

It's quite reassuring that everything we believe we discover, has already been discovered by a German some time ago. New aim for future scholars: to boldly go where no German has gone before.

I'm inclined to think that the reason he is mutilated (and has no nose) is that he represents Domitian.

But is it mutilated? Missing noses and breaks are quite common...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Could well have been smashed during an earthquake, an invasion of less cultured peoples etc?

[D B Campbell]

I'm inclined to think that the reason he is mutilated (and has no nose) is that he represents Domitian.

But is it mutilated? Missing noses and breaks are quite common...

I didn't mean to imply that the breakage proves that he must be Domitian. Only that, if you believe (as I tend to) that he is Domitian, the breakage then becomes understandable.

It's a fascinating conundrum! So, why do you think it must be Titus?

[Jona Lendering]

It's a fascinating conundrum! So, why do you think it must be Titus?

I don't know. What makes one recognize faces? Why is it that I cannot describe a face, but do recognize it if I see a photo?

(Interesting parallel: Plato's Meno. What does it mean that you discover something? If you know what you're looking for, there's no need to search for it; if you don't know the solution, you won't recognize it even when you see it.)