Hadrians Wall

[mcbishop]

Do you take people to the Great North Museum at all? I find that extremely disappointing as I said, so Tullie House probably benefits more in my estimation by comparison...

Yes. Punters quite like it but I get annoyed by the huge video wall (a gimmick that wastes space and achieves little) and the video mithraeum, which is not a patch on the old Museum of Antiquities one. People also find it awkward having to hunt down techy translations for the inscriptions (whereas in the MoA they were right there, on the plinth). And don't get me started on the wolves or the ruddy Tyrannosaurus Rex...!

Mike Bishop

[PhilusEstilius]

Robert.
In not wishing to appear rude in any way I have to disagree with the approach to Vindolanda for the view down into the valley when going along the side of Barcombe fell from the east is just tremendous on the high point of the Stanegate.
It shows just how the Romans had no fear at all about having their fort down in a valley, indeed there was no need to fear for they would have known just what was going on in every direction from there and it does give shelter from the cold northern winters.

[PhilusEstilius]

Mike.
It sounds like your view of Tullie House is where they have just dumped everything together, a bit similar to taking the apple crumble and custard and putting it ontop of a good meal of roast beef and veg'.

[Kegluneq]

Yes. Punters quite like it but I get annoyed by the huge video wall (a gimmick that wastes space and achieves little) and the video mithraeum, which is not a patch on the old Museum of Antiquities one.

I may have three or four bricks in the Wall so far... The Mithraeum is awful, I really don't see why they couldn't at least have allowed enough space to provide a complete, enclosed floor plan (as in the MoA). I can see how a video display would make the sign language version possible, but they could have spent a few minutes proof reading the subtitles. :neutral:

In not wishing to appear rude in any way I have to disagree with the approach to Vindolanda for the view down into the valley when going along the side of Barcombe fell from the east is just tremendous on the high point of the Stanegate.

Okay, I'll certainly concede that. I took that road for the first time recently when I dug as a volunteer at Vindolanda, and took no small amount of pleasure from realising that I was actually following the route of the Stanegate to boot on the way there. I also climbed up Barcombe to the site of the watch tower and hill fort, and to the stone at the actual summit, and the view was very impressive.

As a compromise, once the roadworks are finished it should be possible once again to approach from the east, drive past the site, and arrive in the western car park...

[PhilusEstilius]

When going back to the beginning of this topic and listening to Lindsay Allason-Jones when she mentioned the Stanegate as being the frontier prior to Hadrian's Wall and that it ran from Carlisle to Corbridge.
I do think it is time that archaeologists should accept that the Stanegate did indeed travel much further eastward than Corbridge, for the late Raymond Selkirk an archaeologist did carry out excavations that proved that it did go eastward beyond this point when he did his excavations at Bywell.
I myself did trace it with him as far as Heddon on the Wall then beyond Throckley we are going towards the edge of the City of Newcastle where it must lie buried along the north bank of the river Tyne.
It might even be that the Fort of Pons Aelius may even belong to this frontier, in fact evidence shows that it may well have traveled west as far as the Solway therefore it may indeed also be a coast to coast frontier line.

[Crispvs]

There is also something else to see at Chesters, although ironically, it cannot be seen.

The Clayton museum at Chesters is my favourite on the Wall as well, but the most exciting thing about the site for me in recent years was the discovery of a 'gyrus' for training or exercising horses. An extensive geophysical survey of the fort and its environs in (I believe) 2008 showed there to be a large circular feature with a funnel shaped entrance between the bath house and the fort gate. This is exactly the shape of the gyrus feature at the Lunt fort which is (as far as I know) the only other gyrus known in Britain. The area where the gyrus was is the grassy area uphill from the bath house which is presently dominated by a large oak tree, although the ground is now considerably less even than it was then.

Crispvs

[Vindex]

The Clayton museum at Chesters is my favourite on the Wall as well, but the most exciting thing about the site for me in recent years was the discovery of a 'gyrus' for training or exercising horses. An extensive geophysical survey of the fort and its environs in (I believe) 2008 showed there to be a large circular feature with a funnel shaped entrance between the bath house and the fort gate. This is exactly the shape of the gyrus feature at the Lunt fort which is (as far as I know) the only other gyrus known in Britain. The area where the gyrus was is the grassy area uphill from the bath house which is presently dominated by a large oak tree, although the ground is now considerably less even than it was then.

Crispvs

I don't suppose you have the geophys report on that? Or a more particular reference?

[Crispvs]

Unfortunately I don't but I was shown it by the museum staff when I visited Chesters last in June 2008. They pointed out the feature to me on the scan image and the shape and its proportions seemed very similar to those of the Lunt. I don't know, but a letter to either English Heritage or to the site museum might elicit a copy of the report or part thereof.
Later that day I walked over the area in question and without the benefit of a measuring tape guessed the area was roughly similar to that of the Lunt gyrus, which I have walked around numerous times. It has made me wonder actually if there might be gyri sitting undiscovered just outside other cavalry forts as well and whether the internal placement of the Lunt gyrus might be unusual in the overall context of these things.
At Chesters, the horses (if housed within the fort) would have been brought out through the south-west gate and gone twenty or thirty yards along the road towards the bridge, before turning right into the gyrus, which lay immediately south-west of the fort, adjacent to the fort wall.

Crispvs

[PhilusEstilius]

Crispvs
I can't follow your directions here where you say that if horses were in the fort they would leave the south west gate and after about 30 yards be heading for the bridge.
That is impossible for they would have to go completely around the fort to get to the bridge for that is to the east of the fort.
In fact the only gate that gives direct access to the bridge at Chesters is the Porta Quintana and the area from that gate to the bath house is maybe where I would put the Hadrianic bath house just above the Severan one.

[jvrjenivs]

If I understand corretly (but have to agree with Brian) this is the spot (with tree) you mean?

http://goo.gl/maps/6wxW

[PhilusEstilius]

Jurjen
That is the area that I would agree with and where I suspect there to be another bath bouse, if you cross that field fence to the south of the tree you are standing in the cemetary with lots of graves only around 50 yards from the fort.

[PhilusEstilius]

With the Google map that Jurjen has provided use the grip method to move the map and go to about 10 yards north of the north gate of the fort.
If we now move the map eastward towards the river we find that our line is following the extention of the north gate aquaduct toward yet another bath house by the river that is north of Hadrian's Wall.

[Crispvs]

Sorry - my mistake. I meant to say south-east but I was typing in a hurry as I was just about to head out to an appointment so my mind was rather more on that. I don't normally get confused about directions. :oops:

Yes Jurjen. The place with the tree in the picture you linked to is the site of the gyrus.

Crispvs

[Graham Sumner]

Hi

Every time I went in the old Newcastle MoA it was full of exciting things to see but there was no one else looking around. While the only time I have been to the Great North Museum it was full to the rafters with screaming kids using it like a playground. Apparently climbing on the dinosaur is a popular activity! I suppose in modern parlance this is deemed a success.

I agree it was sad not to see the reconstructed Mithraeum transferred to the new location.

Unlike the trend to take objects out of Museums and fill them with interactive or non working interactive displays it is great to see that the new Vindolanda museum bucks that trend and actually has more finds on display than before. The revamped Roman Army Museum too is a big improvement with lots more original archaeological finds on display. However if you don't agree with the view that the Roman army always looked like The Ermine Street Guard, then you will be in for a disappointment!

Chesters is a superb museum of a museum and I hope it never changes. I would say the same for the Army Museum in Brussels!

Last year I went to Tullie House and saw the Roman armour finds and got permission from the main desk to photograph them. There were no arm guards on display though, I presume they think who on earth would be interested in seeing them!

Graham.

[PhilusEstilius]

Crispvs.
I think that like Moi I would also like to see a full archaeological report about this particular area, for having worked at Chesters in my six years with English Heritage I am familiar with all aspects of this site and much more than anyone will find in any history or guide book and the place you suggest would I think have too much slope to it for a gyrus.