Newbie pronunciation question

[Valerian Pertinax]

Hello everyone!

Until recently, I have been mentally pronouncing Spatha as Spay-thuh. I then read that it comes from a Greek term for any flat metallic tool object, at which point I began to wonder if the English word Spade comes from Spatha.

So, am I not supposed to sound out a "th" sound when saying this? Or is it more along the lines of Spahd-hah? And was I correct to guess at a Greek root for Spade?

Thanks for your patience.

[Robert Vermaat]

The 'th' is correct, but not the 'y'. It's more like 'spah-thah' or perhaps 'spah-tah'.

[Macedon]

σπάθα is pronounced spuh thuh stressed on the first uh. And keep both uhs really short like in "cut".

[M. Demetrius]

Spade does, indeed come from spatha.

In Spanish, for example, espada means sword, so there's a broader connection. I can't see anyone deliberately digging with a sword, but at the same time, spades have not always looked the way they do now, though they have always been different than shovels.

But to the original question: it's pronounced NOO' bee :roll: :wink:

[Valerian Pertinax]

Thanks very much guys.

[damianlz]

Can I also impart one last prononciation piece of advice that I had insanely wrong for 3 years? The strands and material called pterigues are pronounce "terr-ree-gaes" not "pet-tridge-es" as I read it.

[Valerian Pertinax]

While I'm at it, let me ask about a few other words with which I'm less then 100% sure:

Pugio: I say pyew-jee-oh. Or is it poo-jee-oh?

Pilum: py-lum, or pee-lum? Heard it pronounced Pill-um once on a documentary.

Scutum: scoo-tum, or skyew-tum?

Again, I apologize for the noobness of my questions. It's just that for 15 years, I've only ever been reading these words. I also have zero chance to use them in conversation.

[Macedon]

Can I also impart one last prononciation piece of advice that I had insanely wrong for 3 years? The strands and material called pterigues are pronounce "terr-ree-gaes" not "pet-tridge-es" as I read it.

No.. it is pteruges (πτέρυγες) and it is pronounced pteri-yes (stress on the first "e", "-yes" like the word, just do not stress the consonants like Anglosaxons do). In classical times, it was supposedly pronounced more like pterue(ue like the german u umlaut) -yes. As a Greek this sounds "Greek" to me and it is pretty sure that at least since the late Hellenistic times the various i-volwels were being pronounced i (as in pit), what you barbarians (hehe 8) 8) ) call iotakismos, that is the Greek practice to have 5 different letters and dipthongs sound like "i" (iota)(ι, η, υ, οι, ει, we have a sixth υι, but it is pronounced like a double i (i-i), not a single one), which should not seem that strange to you... (pit, keep, leap, phoebe, lyrics, niece, be..., you actually have many more "ee" letters and dipthongs than the iotakizontes ancient Greeks). The υ sounding like u (put), ew (new) or sth like that may have lasted more, maybe into the early Byzatine years. Yet, I would stick with the i-sound, sounds more Greek... Yet, interestingly enough, another version of the word πτέρυγες is πτερούγες (pteru (ου=u like in put)-yes, stressed on the u) which means the exact same thing... "wings".

[damianlz]

Sorry Macedon, I'm going off the few times I have heard it pronounced, To make sure I have it correct would it be "terr-ee-yis"?

[Macedon]

Sorry Macedon, I'm going off the few times I have heard it pronounced, To make sure I have it correct would it be "terr-ee-yis"?

nope...

π = p
τ = t
ε = e (pet)
ρ = r
υ = i (pit) or earlier ue like the German u umlaut (iu)
γ = y (yes)
ε = e (pet)
ς = s

πτέρυγες / pteriyes the ' -sign (oxeia) is where you stress the word.

What you write (terr-ee-yis) would be written like "τέρυγις". Unfortunately, no such word exists...

[Lyceum]

403-Forbidden!

Sorry, but access to this area has been denied

EDIT: Getting this whilst trying to post. Odd.

[Macedon]

403-Forbidden!

Sorry, but access to this area has been denied

EDIT: Getting this whilst trying to post. Odd.

I always "copy" my posts before posting. I do not remember what the codes of the errors I have encountered were but sometimes, if it has taken long, if someone has posted while writing etc, errors do occur.

[M. Demetrius]

Pugio: I say pyew-jee-oh. Or is it poo-jee-oh?

Pilum: py-lum, or pee-lum? Heard it pronounced Pill-um once on a documentary.

Scutum: scoo-tum, or skyew-tum?

Most agree on this:
Pugio POO gee oh (hard G like Good)
Pilum PEE lum
Scutum SCOO tum

It seems the single vowels in Latin are pronounced pretty much like the vowels in Spanish or Italian. There are some dipthongs, though, and they are not the same. Simple solution is to get any of the paperback Latin dictionaries, and use their pronouncing guide. EZ? :wink:

[DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS]

Wait... wah-geeenah?

[Tarbicus]

Most agree on this:
Pugio POO gee oh (hard G like Good)
Pilum PEE lum
Scutum SCOO tum

All I know is that my Classics and O-level Latin teacher at school would've (literally) thrown his stick of chalk at me for that (it was the 70s in a grammar-turned-comprehensive, and dodging missiles in class for despoiling ancient languages in class was the norm) Hard vowels and hard consonants was the rule of thumb.

Pugio: PUH-GHEE-YOH (pug, geese, yo-yo)
Pilum: PIH-LUM (pill, bum)
Scutum: SKUH-TTUM (cut, bum)

Or something like that, you get the idea. He did give a 5-pence piece for getting something difficult right, though: a kind of "Pavlov's dog" approach.