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This video shows a reconstruction of linen armour supposubly used by Alexander the Great. It completely blocks arrow shots from 30+ meter.
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/techn...75814.html
Great stuff. I don't know why not all ancient armies used it. Probably because it pretty much only protects from projectiles.
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These are all fantasy experiments!
There are absolutely NO written evidence on how linothorax was built... and there are no artifacts in the museums, due to the fragile nature of the original material...
So how people insist that some type of glue was used? Some even try toilet tiles glue, hide glue, plastic silicon glue, carnival costumes and much more fantasy things
Linothorax is a very vandalized and abused topic.
Antonis Aliades
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They say they reconstructed the manufacturing process along written text.
But what is living history there for, if not to try things, that can't be reconstructed by what we find ?
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Can't get the video to load 
Moi Watson
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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It is there, mainly to give us an understanding of how things that we find worked. If we some times use some "educated guessing" in order to complete the experience, that is a side effect, but it should always be done with complete knowlege of what we DO know and what we don't.
Or this is how i see it.
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
![[Image: -side-1.gif]](http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118/kadoglou_gr/-side-1.gif)
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It is an interesting exercise in experimental archaeology but there is nothing in the texts to indicate how linen armour was manufactured and no surviving examples dating to this time period. If you look at layered linen armour from other cultures then it is highly unlikely that glue was ever used. It would have been a far better use of resources to experiment with different ways of assembling quilted linen rather than wasting time with glue. There is also very little to indicate that the Greeks ever wore it. Most of the documents about linen armour are about other cultures wearing it, not Greeks. Alexander had at least three different cuirasses and the only one described as linen was taken from a Persian corpse.
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Experimental Archaeology is serious only if supported by scientific evidence. Whoever support the theory of using glue for linothorax construction, must provide their sources for this.
I agree with Dan, tightly quilted textiles, a documented and proven military technology across centuries and accross nations, is the most logical answer to linothorax quest
May I reming that is historically documented that Greek warriors employed this technology for their armor till the begining of 20th century. Greek bandits during Ottoman occupation, Euzones (military units employed by British Empire in 19th century and Greek Royal Army during Balkan / WW1) used Fermeli for protecting their torso and hands from sword hits and even slow-speed bullets.
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CF%8...cn0258.JPG
Fermeli is the heavy, very dense sewned linen (or cotton) vest, carried today by the Presidential Guard as seen on the above foto. The Fermeli flaps seen on the back of the Euzones, move on the side and cover the full length of the hand in case of sword fight.
I have also read that similar tehnology was used by American troops, during American Civil War, though I have no documentation for this.
Antonis Aliades
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We have evidence of ancient glues.
What evdence we have that glue was used in the textile armotr comnstruction?
Mongols and Indians also used layers of silk and so does thai Polce
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/379338.stm
Byzantine textile cambadion (known alsoas gambeson) has no glue.
Our armorer knows the vinegars salt haredening recipy mentioned in Byzantine texts.
So we have evidence of working textile armor with out glue and I will repeat myself statimng firmly that I would go to a blade fight wearing this armor. :!:
Who would risk going with the reconstructed glued stuff? :twisted:
Who would brave fire with pine-raisin glued armor ? :twisted: :twisted:
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Ah this again...
I think this is one of those dead debates really. I would say, however, that the lin B texts specifically mention bronze chiton fittings, but how those would fit together is unsure. Moreover, there have been one (or two, maybe more) finds of extra thick quilted linens from Knossos and, I think, Thebes. These were probably armaments in some fashion.
However, this means nothing for the Classical period and later.
Homer, of course, utilises the words linothorex. Leaving the usual caveats about using the Homeric texts for realien aside (which, seriously, why is it only professional Homerists acknowledge? common sense, please), this is clearly an appellative formation used to signify something like "armoured in linen", so again irrelevant.
Yes there is ample evidence for glues in the Aegean, though unlike the bronze age stuff its unlikely that the Classical versions would be as strong, however its completely feasible. It would not be a very sensible economic solution, however. In this sense I agree with Dan. There were myriad reasons to avoid using this method of assembly.
I'm also surprised about the comments on layered silk, above. I was under the impression mongols used lacquered armour with silk shirts to facilitate the removal of arrows. As for the Indian version I have some pieces of very old Indian armour. Whilst they seem to be of silk, that's a covering for a series of scales (Pangolin) fastened to leather underneath so not at all the same thing either.
Jass
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Quote:It is an interesting exercise in experimental archaeology but there is nothing in the texts to indicate how linen armour was manufactured and no surviving examples dating to this time period.
I just quoted from the short film. I have absolutely no clue of what Greek armour was like. I just posted it, because I found it fascinating, how well this reconstructed armour works.
I also agree to the "educated guesse" aproach to experimental archeology. However I think that we should use text based explanations, if they exist. For example Juvenal mentions a bast knee guard for the scutari. I believe no such knee guard has ever been found, so using old material and techniques it is up to experiment to create such a thing, as a bast knee guard.
But, as I said, my knowledge of the sources to reconstruct Greek armour is very limited. Therefore I can not tell, if the Greek culture used glue. BUT (no the educated guesse) even StoneAge cultures used Glue (proven by findings). That is why I believe the Greek use of glue, even to produce armour, as plausible.
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Layered textile armour has been used all over the world for thousands of years and there are plenty of surviving examples. In all of that time not a single one has ever been demonstrated to have been made using glue - without exception the layers on extant examples are quilted. In addition, nobody has ever produced a single document in all of that history that even mentions glued linen armour or any other kind of glued armour. It is certainly possible that glue was used given the experiments that demonstrate its effectiveness, but it is definitely not plausible given the available evidence.
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The theory of glued-linothorax is very viral.... there are so many people insisting on this unproved theory and spending their time on applying glue between linen textile... and being very proud for the result...
My only question is if they have ever tested the result of their work simulating falanx fighting. Our initial tests with natural hide glue showed complete structural collapse under the extreme pressure of othismos phase. Linen comes apart from the glue and the whole structure looses the required protection level.
Also the material (hide glue plus linen) is sensitive to heat and humidity and insects... yes insects attack, since this is dead organic material...
Some advise to add resin in hide glue as insect repelent, but no Hoplite would liked to run in the battlefield like a burning torch :-(
Some (of course) bypass all these problems by using modern silicon-based (bathroom) tiles glue... this might a viable alternative, function-wise...
Antonis Aliades
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I replaced my glued linen linthorax with a leather spolas (pics to follow someday). I donated the lino (see avatar) for destructive testing (to get it out of circulation). A spearpoint with not much force behind it (we were in a classroom) went right through the front of the lino and would have poked me but good had I been in it. It surprised me. I knew the lino was based on outdated research and a mistranslation, but I felt safe inside it. Wrong. There wasn't even an edge on the spearpoint. Jes' sayin'....
Cheryl Boeckmann
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