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The Revolt of Vindex and the Fall of Nero
#1
Hello - has anyone got access to Latomus 18 (1959) and P A Brunt's paper of this title and happy to let me have a copy please? I used to have it years ago but now can't find it.

I can't even find it on JSTOR and my local library is hopeless on inter library loans :roll:

Thank you in advance.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#2
It's a pity JStor does not include (m)any non-Anglo-american journals. Latomus is Belgian, I believe.

Should nobody be able to help you out (I'm afraid I don't have the article myself) it's always possible to get a copy from the British Library, even in electronic format. Check their document supply site: http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/atyourdesk/docs...index.html . You'd also need to tell them the page numbers (pp.531-559) when ordering, and, unless they changed something from the last time I tried it, need a special program you get from them to read the document.

Copyright fees and delivery fees tend to run to up a bit of a bill, though, and my electronic copy had a protection which prevented it from being printed more than once, which was rather annoying as my printer chose that moment to crash.

Hope this helps, even if I can't provide the article myself.
M. Caecilius M.f. Maxentius - Max C.

Qui vincit non est victor nisi victus fatetur
- Q. Ennius, Annales, Frag. XXXI, 493

Secretary of the Ricciacus Frënn (http://www.ricciacus.lu/)
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#3
That's kind - thank you for the information.

I've found many second hand copies of Latomus (yes, it's Belgian) but not this one (typical).
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#4
There is also the possibility of ordering

- P.A. Brunt, Roman Imperial Themes, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1990
ISBN-10: 0198144768
ISBN-13: 978-0198144762

from Amazon. It includes the following articles:

Sulla and the Asian Publicans - The Revolt of Vindex and the Fall of Nero - Tacitus on the Batavian Revolt - Charges of Provincial Maladministration under the Early Principate - Augustan Imperialism - Reflections on British and Roman Imperialism - The Fiscus and its Development, Procuratorial Jurisdiction - Conscription and Volunteering in the Roman Imperial Army - The Administrators of Roman Egypt - Did Imperial Rome Disarm her Subjects? - The Romanization of the Local Ruling Classes in the Roman Empire - Josephus on Social Conflicts in Roman Judaea - Laus Imperii - The Revenues of Rome - Remarks on the Imperial Fiscus - Publicans in the Principate - Roman Imperial Illusions

Amazon has one copy left in stock for 85 GBP, with some cheaper ones (both new and used) from its marketplace (starting at 50 GBP for a "very good" condition). As Brunt was a rather important scholar, it might be worth the price, unless it's really only Vindex you're interested in.
M. Caecilius M.f. Maxentius - Max C.

Qui vincit non est victor nisi victus fatetur
- Q. Ennius, Annales, Frag. XXXI, 493

Secretary of the Ricciacus Frënn (http://www.ricciacus.lu/)
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#5
Thank you again!

It is really only the Vindex Revolt paper I want although his other works are very tempting; and I suppose it is a testament to his scholarship that this paper is still the one to read.

Having said that, I have just found a copy of the Latomus on Abe Books and even with postage from Belgium it is less than £20 so I think that's fair.

But thank you for your assistance; much appreciated.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#6
Glad you found what you were looking for. £20 for a journal with postage included is a great deal, and probably even cheaper than what you would have ended up paying for the article on its own from the British Library, copyright fees included.

Now unfortunately I have to keep resisting the temptation of getting the Brunt book, along with the companion volume on the Roman Republic...

Out of curiosity: what has you interested in Vindex in particular?
M. Caecilius M.f. Maxentius - Max C.

Qui vincit non est victor nisi victus fatetur
- Q. Ennius, Annales, Frag. XXXI, 493

Secretary of the Ricciacus Frënn (http://www.ricciacus.lu/)
Reply
#7
Aha! Vindex...<drags up soapbox>. How long have you got? :mrgreen:

Briefly, there was a scholarly fashion which was still prevalent in my student days for Vindex's revolt to be a Nationalistic one. The first great revolt against the great Ceasar's conquest blah, blah, blah without paying any attention whatsoever to the fact that Vindex wanted Galba to succeed and continue to run the growing empire.

Which then puts us in the first/second generation of Gallic Senators (Senatorial rank being bestowed upon the Aquitanian Royal family by Claudius) being more Roman than the degenerate Imperial family.

Several references I have found (Arnold's book on Roman Stoicism in particular) suggest that not only was Vindex of the Stoic school, he was also probably of the original Cynic school of thought. The account of Appollonius of Tyana also ranks Vindex as an honourable Roman fighting for the cause of honour and Roman values not a disgruntled Gallic savage.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#8
Vindex is an interesting character.

Yes, the good old days when every revolt was considered to be nationalistic!

Another factor against this is the involvement of parts of Gaul - notably those from where I live, the Treveri), fought against him at Vesontio, before rising up themselves once they stood to be punished for siding with Nero by Galba and then by Vespasian - and the fact that there is no mention in the ancient sources about peculiar Gallic trappings, like an intervention of the druids.

Do you assume his case is related to stoic conspiracies against Nero (Piso, possibly Seneca) and under the Flavians (Paetus)?
M. Caecilius M.f. Maxentius - Max C.

Qui vincit non est victor nisi victus fatetur
- Q. Ennius, Annales, Frag. XXXI, 493

Secretary of the Ricciacus Frënn (http://www.ricciacus.lu/)
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#9
Quote: Do you assume his case is related to stoic conspiracies against Nero (Piso, possibly Seneca) and under the Flavians (Paetus)?

Yes indeed; having just found my notes made a long time ago from Arnold's book there is a cross refrence to Seneca which I think is in the Latomus article although as I remember at the moment, even Brunt was just discussing previous revolts and did not connect the Gallic nobleman with Senatorial disapproval of Nero.

I am not as convinced by Paetus but I know less of him.

Even the fact that Vindex committed suicide out of shame for letting his soldiers down after the dubious incident with Verginius Rufus puts him on a par with Republican Romans; and then there's the coinage which was minted too.

And isn't it enticing to wonder what those discussions between the "Rebel" and the General were about?
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#10
I'm impressed! The vendor has dropped the price on the Latomus so it's just over £10!

Bargin.

Perhaps I could afford the Brunt book now... Confusedhock: :mrgreen:
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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