Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
1st cent Patera
#76
Why restrict to 1st century examples?
Do we have enough 'facts' on the dating of most examples at all. I think making this restriction will give you real problems at some time as you will find enough examples that are dated by their design. (if any (good) dating is present at all)
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#77
I have only looked for and seen 1st cent examples as that is my interest, but as stated in my last post i would be more than happy for comments/pics of other eras and try to put them into a catagory, if the mods agree to a RAT only classification.. My ears are open to anyone who has suggestions Jurgen, that is not a problem.
Kevin
Kevin
Reply
#78
Quote:I have only looked for and seen 1st cent examples as that is my interest, but as stated in my last post i would be more than happy for comments/pics of other eras and try to put them into a catagory, if the mods agree to a RAT only classification.. My ears are open to anyone who has suggestions Jurgen, that is not a problem.
Kevin

Yes, you said you're open to comments, but I think you missed my point. What I wanted to add is just the fact that you sometimes (if not often) have to question that first century dating. I've seen enough of these cooking gear from 2nd century find spots in museums classified as 1st century.
e.g. scientifically such a classification would only make sense if you're going do a lot of research with lots of find reports, etc. Interesting nevertheless, but a lot of work.

And then we're not even going to categorise on handle design, size, material, etc, etc...
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#79
Yes you have a very valid point Jurgens, but if i start my work with 1st cent...ie the same as finds from Pompeii, i allways spell that wrong, then similar items can be discussed. I'm no scholar, i am 1 person who would like to simplify the cassification of cooking/eating pots over several centuries, of the common Legionary. Most of my info will come from members such as yourself.
Kevin
Kevin
Reply
#80
Historical Museum of Kardzhali Bulgaria
[Image: historicalmuseumofkardz.th.jpg]
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#81
It's that tarnish that includes the poisonous copper oxides. Copper itself isn't toxic, but it tarnishes really quickly. Tin is not toxic in that wsy, so it's used extensively. Some kinds of tin solder contain lead, which is no help to the toxicity issue. Others do not. That's why Jurjen said "lead-free" tinning.

Even modern chefs tin their copper pots. Same reason.

The Deepeeka patera seems to be a close copy of the style shown in your illustration...except for the lack of the significant leak, of course.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
Reply
#82
2 st cent Patera of rich Thracian patrician grave Brestovitsa Bulgaria [Image: w5bc.jpg]
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#83
Quote:Historical Museum of Kardzhali Bulgaria
[Image: historicalmuseumofkardz.th.jpg]
There was a problem with picture posting with my post above!
[Image: historicalmuseumofkardz.jpg]
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#84
Great pics, I was talking with Matt Amt about pieces like these yesterday.
Reply
#85
2 st cent Patera of rich Thracian patrician grave Brestovitsa Bulgaria
<img src="http://imageshack.us/a/img23/6397/b7u1.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/><br/>
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
Reply
#86
Hi all,
It seems to me that that the first pic that Rado posted, Patera with Rams head, is extremely common throughout the Empire. These types do not seem to be suitable for cooking vessels, I think I have heard them refered to as "bathing" Pateras, possibly for pouring water over oneself, or used in some form of ritual for anointing.
. The second pic interests me more as this is the image we all have of a cooking pot/vessel. Many like these were found in Pompeii in situ in kitchens. These items are far bigger and with the concentric rings on the base were obviously used for cooking.
A big ask now.........would anyone have any pics of these larger cooking vessels that definatly have a Military context. The items found in my nearest Roman Fortress were 3 fused together, shallow Patera of the "bathing" type, found outside the Fortress boundaries, but so dated to the late 1st cent AD, not Military.II AVG left Isca Dunomniorum approx. AD70. I think Moi posted the Pics of a so called "cooking" Patera from Usk earlier in the thread, but is it proven from the Military Base.
So, Ladies and Gentlemen, big cooking Patera from a confirmed Military context would be ideal, though difficult to find I think.
Kevin
Kevin
Reply
#87
Here's a question, Rado posted that lovely 'patrician's patera, and I posted several gorgeous examples from civillian sites. Why are they so high status? If they stayed in the kitchen, no one would see them. If they were used at the table, how were they used? I've never seen any tricilinium scene depicted with patera's on hand .... I'm not sure that ritual is the answer.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#88
Possibly not Paul. I use the term "Ritual" very loosely as obviously this Patera has a more meaningful use Could it have held plain or flavoured oils for dining with? Or various oils for the Baths? One thing for sure, they were not used for cooking.
As stated before, unless one can get hold of the actual excavation report, if it was even published, then we really do not knoe the context, just the era, and that's when a whole bundle of things come together to create confusion....ie types, find context, date, Military context.
Kevin
Kevin
Reply


Forum Jump: