Roman Muscle Armor

[jho]

[I originally posted this in the "Rules and Announcements" Section by error and am reposting:]

There has been discussion on Roman muscle armor in several recent threads.

The new book "Die Armee der Caesaren" by Prof. Thomas Fischer (see references and reviews for a prelimnary review) contains some information on this which was new to me:

(1) There has been some discussion on the dating of the muscle armor found in a shipwreck off Cueva del Jarro/Almunecar, Spain which D'Amato dates AD but the museum apparently dates BC. Fischer states that the original publication dated this BC but that recent reevaluation of pottery found in the shipwreck by N. Hanel provides a date in the first half of the first century AD (apparently Hanel's conclusions are not yet published).

(2) There are fragments of a muscle cuirass from a Germanic grave in Kemnitz, Germany decorated with stories from the life of Hercules.

(3) There is a bronze fragment with a griffon from a private collection which may be from muscle armor.

If anybody needs references of the original publications of (1) through (3) above, I can post them.

[Nathan Ross]

This is interesting news. I'd seen that Cueva del Jarro musculata dated to the 4th BC - at least it's Roman, one way or the other...

Is this the one? It's very 'anatomical' looking! hock:



Does the book give any indication of how large the other fragments might be?

[tiberius aemilius naso]

Really really interesting. I was surprised when i read in the footnote for the muscle armor from the Cueva shipwreck, while in the picture says "greek, 4th century BC". It made me read the D'Amatto book with doubts... I'll like to have those references!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, in the 4th Century BC, there were a lot of Greek cities in Italy...so calling it Greek is probably not inaccurate at all.
This book is available in English? It sounds interesting.
And the references would be of great interest.

[jho]

Here are the references, I am afraid that I have not read these and Fischer gives no more information than summarized in my first post:

(1) Cueva del Jarro/Almunecar, Spain and (2) Kemnitz:

Th. Fischer cites his own publication: "Bemerkungen zu Grab 622 von Kemnitz, Kreis Potsdam in Brandenburg. In: Friesinger, H./Stuppner, A. (Herausg.) Zentrum und Peripherie – Gesellschaftliche Phänomene in der Frühgeschichte. Mat. D. 13. Int. Symp. “Grundprobleme der frühgeschichtlichen Entwicklung im mittleren Donauraum“ Zwettl 4. – 8. Dez. 2000 (Wien 2004) 131 ff." I do not have access to this but I have found another reference to the cuirass in P. F. Stary: Zur Eisenzeitlichen Bewaffnung Und Kampfesweise in Mittelitalien. (Marburger Studien Zur Vor- Und Frühgeschichte, 3.) with reference to the original Spanish publication of the find: Maluquez de Motes, Zephyrus 25, 1974, 321 et seq. and Ampurias 33-34, 1971/72, 327 et seq. apparently the Spanish publication. Here the cuirass is considered Greek and typologically dated to the 5th/4th century BC.

The redating to 1st AD appears to be based on a personal comment of Mr. Hanel to Mr. Fischer but generally pottery based dating would appear more secure to me than typological dating (save for the possibility that the ship belonged to a dealer in antiques).

On item (3) the reference is: Vermeule, “Hellenistic and Roman Cuirassed Statues,” Berytus 13, 1959

I am afraid that Prof. Fischer's book is not available in English but it has many nice glossy photos (not of these items, however)!

[tiberius aemilius naso]

Let me see if i can find the Spanish publication...

[Alexand96]

(2) There are fragments of a muscle cuirass from a Germanic grave in Kemnitz, Germany decorated with stories from the life of Hercules.

Interesting...I wish there was a pic of these fragments. Thanks for posting the update about the Cueva del Jarro musculata.

[Duncan Head]

When, three or four years ago, I first looked at the cuirass on the Granada museum's website - http://www.museosdeandalucia.es/cultura/...1&pagina=2 - I think it was dated 5th-4th century, and certainly described as "Greek" - probably following the original Maluquer de Mots article, which dates it both stylistically and by reference to the pottery found with it. About 2011, the museum website changed its description to read 4th century and "cultura púnica". I wondered if this may have been connected to a talk given in mid-2010 by a member of the museum's staff - see http://www.granada.org/inet/wagenda.nsf/...43003D0C63

If anyone was there, or knows Prof. Dr. D. Andrés Adroher Auroux, I'd be interested to hear what was said!

[Tarbicus]

Here's a larger version of the photo of the Granada museum musculata.

Source

[richard robinson]

Thanks for the pics and info gents. It looks iron. Is it??

regards
Richard who does not read spanish so good

[S. Marcer]

According to the Granada museum's website:Bronce, modelado y molde. I'm not a good Spanish reader but I think it is something like: Bronze, shaped and mold

[tiberius aemilius naso]

I've contacted by mail Dr. Andrés Adroher Auroux (from the University of Granada), that has kindly answered that he is not aware of the change of description and datation, from Greek to Punic. He thinks that considering decoration and typology, it seems Greek to him. But he is not an expert on this piece. He doesn't know about the new Roman identification and datation in the first century AD.

[Duncan Head]

Many thanks, Tiberius - looks like I guessed wrong.

Looking at the museum site again, it suggests that the cuirass is probably of South Italian manufacture - so quite likely Italiote Greek - but transported to Spain in a Punic context.