A \'new\' look at the linothorax

[Urselius]

Any reconstruction of Ancient Greek thorakes have to comply with their depiction in contemporary art. This art can be shown to be relatively accurate in its depiction of objects and their shape and proportions. The art shows two major elements of body armour, first it shows no indication of particular physical bulk, the armours were not particularly thick - as one would expect from quilting. Second, it shows that the shoulder elements of the yoke sprang upright when not secured to the chest. Any reconstruction must incorporate both the lack of bulk and evident elastic qualities of the originals as demonstrated in art.

[Dan Howard]

Once again, quilted linen does both of these. Forget about glue. A corselet made of 10-15 layers of properly quilted linen looks just like the illustrations. Take a look at the arm guards of kendo armour. It is the easiest example of martial quilting to get a hold of these days.

The main problem is our label "linothorax". What little evidence we have suggests that Greek tube-and-yoke armour was made of leather, not linen. Except for Homer, all of Aldrete's textual evidence is about foreigners wearing linen armour, not Greeks. We have a couple of examples of Greek linen armour but they date to the late Bronze Age, not the Classical/Hellenistic period.

[Urselius]

If I can see a reconstruction using any material that looks and behaves like the depictions in art I will believe that it is at least possible.

So far the only reproductions I have seen that fit this prerequisite have been of glued textile.

The standing projection of the yoke at the back of the neck, faithfully reproduced in iron in the Vergina armour, is a case in point, This argues for the yoke being formed then cut to shape, the projection, useful as it may have been, is then a logical by product of its method of construction. In quilted armour this projection would have to have been specifically created, this would argue for a leather or glued-textile construct.

[Dan Howard]

If I can see a reconstruction using any material that looks and behaves like the depictions in art I will believe that it is at least possible.

Kendo kote. They consist of nothing but quilted layered cloth and the resulting construction is as rigid as a board. This method has been used to make armour all over the world for thousands of years. I have previously posted a list of surviving examples that you can go and look at in various museums. I can't understand why people are so resistant to this basic concept of armour construction.

You can't make a decent reconstruction of armour without a basic knowledge of how historical costumes were made. I've already posted a link to a good book to start with.
http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Fashion-C...532&sr=1-2

The standing projection of the yoke at the back of the neck, faithfully reproduced in iron in the Vergina armour, is a case in point, This argues for the yoke being formed then cut to shape, the projection, useful as it may have been, is then a logical by product of its method of construction. In quilted armour this projection would have to have been specifically created, this would argue for a leather or glued-textile construct.

That is the fundamental problem with Aldrete's work. The Greek texts he uses describe foreigners wearing linen armour, not Greeks. There is nothing to suggest that foreign linen armour was made in the tube-and-yoke style. HIs Homeric cites don't help since Greek Bronze Age armour wasn't made in the T&Y style either. What little evidence we have suggests that classical Greek T&Y armour was made of leather, not linen. The illustrations can't help because in many instances you can't tell whether they are depicting textile, leather, or metal.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Here's what leather can do. Not suggesting that this means they were made this way...But they could!
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/63-greek-re...0&start=45

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/63-greek-re...start=1050
Khairete
Giannis