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Intact Roman vexillum from Egypt
#16
The written description described "brilliant gold", and the paint in the image does appear quite metallic looking. I haven't done any research on Roman paints, so I am wondering, did they have metallic gold paints? I sill can't decide on how best to make the fringe, other than not modern upholstery fringe. On the sculptural evidence I have seen of fringe, either on banners, or pterges, they just look thicker than what you would get by simply fraying the fabric.
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#17
I found one way to make fringe from yarn that looks very much like the fringes shown on sculptures. PM and I'll give you the way I made it work.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#18
Hi all,

I have been researching hooded tunics, and have seen a few now that actually have fringe on them. They seem to be dated as early as 5th Century...so that is late, and on clothing, but still seems reasonable for reflecting how fringe might have been applied to a vex. The Met Museum has one child's tunic that has fringe applied two different ways...and the Met has full resolution pictures that allows you to zoom in to see a great deal of detail. The green fringe appears to be the fabric that has been fringed, and there appears to be a braided cord of the same fabric as the tunic(applying this trim would help prevent fraying, and may also explain the lines that appear on sculptures). The gold fringe appears to be knotted thru the green fabric.

http://metmuseum.org/exhibitions/view?ex...fullscreen
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#19
That is a really nice detailed photo. Just as I mentioned, the fringe is directly twisted from the ends of the fabric. Each fringe piece does not appear attached separately. If you look on the hood, the green fabric continues to the end and the freyed ends are twisted into a fringe. Then that strip is sewn for decoration to make the upper twisted areas less sightly. Is this wool? It looks like a coars linen to me in which case the freyed edge is more likely because linen does tend to fall apart at the edge without a selvedge.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)


Paolo
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#20
Hmmmm, the gold fringe is defo a seperate lelment though!
Nice photos indeed! (I wish mine would come out that well!) Confusedad:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#21
The gold is a separate element, but it is knotted through the green wool. It is not sewn to a strip of something else, and then attached. I am not sure the green is a separate piece either, you could achieve the same effect by twisting, or braiding the frayed ends of the fabric, then sewing a braid at the end of that, to prevent more fraying. I plan to try both these methods and see how they turn out. I think both methods could be depicted as looking like there is a line across, as shown in the sculptures though. I am going to try to create a vex very similar to the extant one, except I am going to do it on blue rather than red. On one of these threads I recall someone saying there was written reference to Agrippa and a blue one, and I like the idea of something little different. Red and yellow seems to be the most common. I am not sure if that has to do with this find, or the fresco at Dura Europos.
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#22
If you look at the bottom end of the Egypt vexillum, there is no line where the fringe begins. If you look closely you can still see some remnants of the fringe although there are only a few strands remaining.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)


Paolo
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#23
I finally made a version of a vex. I did the fray the bottom version, which there is plenty of evidence for in things like tunics. I also twisted several strands of the linen together, which I think also helps add to the heavier looking fringe that you see. Here is a link to my version. Not perfect, but a first attempt Smile

http://issylucrezia.livejournal.com/26392.html
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#24
(Sigh) I can't see it. I'm not a member ("you must log in...")
Cheryl Boeckmann
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#25
Here is a pict.
[attachment=6334]DSC06806.JPG[/attachment]


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#26
Beautiful work. Very well executed. Did it take long to "unweave" the fringe?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#27
Thanks. It didn't take that long, I think a full evening, but the weave is tight enough that I am not worried about doing any sort of stitching to prevent further fringing.
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#28
Quote:Peter Connolly mentions that a capricorn was found at Wiesbaden and from the looks of it from his book, could have been mounted on a pole to display the zodiac symbol of the legion. Maybe the vexillum pole could have had something like this on top instead of the spear point and underneath the flag? This too can be conjecture because all the depcitions show spear heads.
That´s a misinterpretation. The piece belongs to a cart.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

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#29
I can't remember any pictures with something stuck on top of the spear head, but these days, seems like I can't remember lots of things. :unsure:
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#30
Legio XXI Rapax new vexillvm - a damn accurate one :-) It’s made of hand woven linen, not cut or sewn, just natural width, hand dyed in red and also hand fringed. Figure and legion's name were painted (not embroided!) in ancient encaustic technique, using heated beeswax and natural resin, to which colored pigments are added. Fabric color may fade with the time as it should naturally, but encaustic will stay and it's also waterproof. Inspiration came from a well-known vexillvm from Egypt with an image of goddess Victoria. But we didn’t want to use this widely copied nowadays example, so here is god of war - Mars (a young one ;-) ), based on 3 original frescos from Pompeii and Herculaneum. Now just stick it to the spear...

www.facebook.com/legioxxirapax

[Image: 9p48.jpg]


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Krzysztof

Nobody expects the Roman invasion!
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