bell cuirass

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Of course MI is one of the first choices.

However the armae cuirass is good, if you alter the bottom. It is inaccurate for greek impression.
Many cuirasses today lack their waist rim, usually because many examples are Thracian cuirasses that once had iron rims that haven't survived.

While i second what Christian has said about armourers, i should also add that they need to have good understanding of the history and archeology behind the items. Unfortunately, reconstructing what you see in one photo is not good enough after some point.

Khaire
Giannis

[KrimzonKnight]

well apparently the bell cuirass comes out to 1300 euro and the greaves to 800 euro. The cuirass is around the same price as an MI brass bell cuirass and the greaves are significantly cheaper. Of course i would expect MI's quality to be far better. Mi would be one of my first choices as well, but the waiting period is ridiculous, 2 years?! I know he must have tons of orders but sheesh. another thing about them is that some things just seem more expensive than they should be, over $2000 for brass greaves, over $1000 for a crest on a corinthian? Ill admit that i dont know the complexity or amount of work that goes into making these items, but that just seems high to me.

[Andy Malcolm]

A 2 year wait is not very long, infact if you contact them you may even find that it could be less of a wait. You should be aiming for a quality kit, and quality comes with a price tag. If this is a passion you invest in assests that you can wear with pride. Do not throw away money to save money as you will just look like a comic book hoplite.

[KrimzonKnight]

i found this picture of an early 5th century greek bell cuirass. The bottom doesn't flare out too much. Theres also i an illustration in peter connolly's "Greece and rome at War" of a bell cuirass and the bottom doesn't flare too much either. And theres a picture of one with a wide bottom. I can see why the armae cuirass needs to have the bottom edge adjusted though, it seems it curls back up slightly. Would you say the central hoplite in the last picture is close to being accurate? his chiton seems a bit off though.

[Gaius Colletti]

A 2 year wait is not very long, infact if you contact them you may even find that it could be less of a wait. You should be aiming for a quality kit, and quality comes with a price tag. If this is a passion you invest in assests that you can wear with pride. Do not throw away money to save money as you will just look like a comic book hoplite.

That's a matter of perspective. I would not be ok with waiting 2 years for my armor to come, and especially for Eric who is only just getting into the hobby, he does not need to have a state-of-the-art replica made. We're trying to get people into the hobby and while a 2 year wait for someone who already has a kit, looking to upgrade to something better isn't bad, I doubt anyone new to the hobby is going to retain interest while waiting two years for their armor and essentially start the hobby.

I'm not suggesting he buy junk, and if you buy something expensive do it right the first time, but its not like other armor is unusable. The lesser shoulder guards on my sementata are 1" wider than the original it is based off, but its not like I should not use it altogether. This hobby is only as much fun as you put into it. MI may have the most accurate and researched armor, but there are other choices to avoid being a "comic book hoplite"

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

i found this picture of an early 5th century greek bell cuirass. The bottom doesn't flare out too much. Theres also i an illustration in peter connolly's "Greece and rome at War" of a bell cuirass and the bottom doesn't flare too much either. And theres a picture of one with a wide bottom. I can see why the armae cuirass needs to have the bottom edge adjusted though, it seems it curls back up slightly. Would you say the central hoplite in the last picture is close to being accurate? his chiton seems a bit off though.

I warned you about that, didn't I? The first one is a Thracian bell cuirass found in Bulgaria, and once had an iron edging. It would in fact flare our a good deal! The one in Connolly's book is the first quirass we find in greece after the dark ages. It is an 8th century quirass found with a Kegel helmet. It is about 3 centuries earlier that what you want to portray! Thus the bell has not fully develloped. The one next is far more common to what you would find in mainlan greece in the time period you want. The rim would have of couse been flat. It should go without saying, but i have actually seen reconstructions that imitated the damage... The midle hoplite of the last photo wears a very nice bell quirass, but a bigger flair out would make it better for the above mentioned reasons.
Khaire
Giannis

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

[attachment=3462]423818_10150572510262132_679432131_9409597_2049100773_n.jpg[/attachment]

A photo of another one, if you haven't got it already. Ashmolean.

[KrimzonKnight]

Yes you did Giannis, I wasnt aware that that was the specific cuirass you were referring too. The thing is that i dont particularly like the look of the flare, so id like to keep it to a minimum, while still being historically accurate. That is why im searching for different representations in art for something that is acceptable but still appealing to me. I found these pictures of two small statues of hoplites, the first is supposedly from the late archaic period and is of a laconian hoplite, the second, im not sure, not even sure if its based on an actual artifact. Their cuirasses don't flare out too much, would a flare along these lines be acceptable?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

They're both archaic. Although it is always more safe to base a reconstruction on actual examples, you can use statues and paintings as well, with a grain of salt. For instance, you have to be able to bend and sit down without any hindrance. Also, in that second statuette, the analogies of the body parts and the cuirass are very stylized. If you measure the actual angle to the rim to the cuirass you will notice that it actually flares out quite a bit!
Khaire
Giannis

[KrimzonKnight]

Yes, the first statuette was described as being late archaic, and as the period that interests me is the persian wars, it would not be completely out of place. Youre right the second does seem to flare out more than the first, but not to the extent of the previous pic id posted. bell cuirasses were flared to allow for better movement, why were muscled cuirasses not? At least ive never seen a flared muscled cuirass, not to the extent of bell cuirasses anyway.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I have wondered that myself.

[richard robinson]

Possibly they were sooooooooooooo last century (reflecting the developing changes in drawing and sculpture)
possibly for greater manouverability and less surfaces to catch yourself on
possibly that as you work the muscles into the sheet the metal becomes more rigid and the need to have an edge reinforce (flare) becomes diminished.
they are guesses obviously
but I am always amazed at how some if those armours go right to the arm and that just hurts if you try to use a "normal" fighting style. Those bruises and chaffings are painfull!!
regards
Richard