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Scale Armor & Accuracy
#31
I think it is very much like Christian K has mentioned by having the metal scale links showing there are less scales needed to make the armour hence it is more lightweight.

There are other scales that do not have any side links but simply six holes at the top of the scale where the outer four holes link them into the horizontal rows with metal clips and the two central holes are used to stitch them to the garment.

The overlap is again the same with just enough to cover the stitching which as earlier mentioned reduces weight by having less rows of scales and of course more flexable armour giving better movement of ones body when wearing it.
Brian Stobbs
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#32
Markus,

Thank you for for your posts in this thread, this is very helpful. I have gotten some brass to make scale but have to admit to having had some anxiety over actually cutting into it.

Best,

Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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#33
Quote:Markus,

Thank you for for your posts in this thread, this is very helpful. I have gotten some brass to make scale but have to admit to having had some anxiety over actually cutting into it.

Ya I hear ya. My scale armor, although at the final completion stage, has taken over a year 1/2 of part time work(hobby). I have kept track of the time thus far (and I had pre-made scales) and its over 170 hours. That included making my own custom buckles, and silvering multiple rows of scales. Its definitely a long term project, but well worth it in the end. Scale IMO is the most elegant, detail oriented armor available for our period. I think it would have taken more time to make than mail did.

Get started and you'll be more motivated as things start to come together :-)
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#34
Here's something which shows the arrangement and about which I was unaware until reading Webster's 'Roman Military Advance under Ostorius Scapula' Royal Archaeological Insitute of Great Britain and Ireland (off print) 1960

It is from Ham Hill in Somerset, UK. Needless to say I am off to see it "in person" as soon as I can!


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#35
Hamm Hill....really....would love to see all published items from this era seeing as the Victorians quarried away over three quarters of the site and i can find little, apart from the obvious, that makes me say WOW thats new
II AVG teritory.
Kevin
Kevin
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#36
Here is a modern pic of the same example. The strings of scale have clearly been hung on a modern backing, so unfortunately they don't reflect an original example which shows how they were attached.


[attachment=5562]Roman_scale_armour_fragment.JPG[/attachment]

Any new photos would be welcome though!


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#37
Thanks for sharing .From which museum is this find?
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
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#38
It is in the Museum of Somerset in Taunton, Rado.

If the piece has been restored (which looks certain from the more recent photograph) it does not necessarily mean that liberties have been taen with the way it was reassembled! I would caution against assuming it is wrong!

Kevin - you need to see the Webster article! I was pointed in its direction following the discussion on FB on the scabbard for the Hod Hill sword.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#39
Quote:If the piece has been restored (which looks certain from the more recent photograph) it does not necessarily mean that liberties have been taen with the way it was reassembled! I would caution against assuming it is wrong!
No, but it´s a Schrödinger´s Cat, so of little use...
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.

LEGIO XIII GEMINA

[Image: BannerAER-1-1.jpg]
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#40
Sorry - don't understand that!

Is there evidence to show it was an experiment in putting the fragments back together? (Genuine question, not arguing!!)
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#41
I already made a review of the book „THE LOWER DANUBE ROMAN LIMES ( 1 st -6 st C.AD) „ devoted on the Limes Congress in Ruse Bulgaria.
But here I will publish extracts concerning the topic:
[Image: img0879copyn.th.jpg]
[Image: img0917ru.jpg]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I pointed with a pencil places that have specified sizes.
[Image: img0916lh.jpg]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Radostin Kolchev
(Adlocutio Cohortium)
http://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/
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#42
From Dura Europos excavated in the early 30's:


[attachment=5742]Squamata.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=5743]Squamata3.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=5744]Squamata2.jpg[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
           
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"

Antony
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#43
Quote:Ya I hear ya. My scale armor, although at the final completion stage, has taken over a year 1/2 of part time work(hobby). I have kept track of the time thus far (and I had pre-made scales) and its over 170 hours. That included making my own custom buckles, and silvering multiple rows of scales. Its definitely a long term project, but well worth it in the end. Scale IMO is the most elegant, detail oriented armor available for our period. I think it would have taken more time to make than mail did.

Get started and you'll be more motivated as things start to come together :-)

Markus,

Thanks for the encouragement! I just need to take the plunge. Hopefully around the holidays I'll have a little stretch of time to get started on it. I'm especially interested in the mid 3rd century and the Dura finds and have been soaking up all of that with the goal of eventually making a full set of kit based on finds from there.

Best,

Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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#44
Hi Jay,

Thanks for posting those closeup images of scale from Dura, they are very helpful.

Some general questions to all. Do we know the type of textile used for the backing in the first image? Is it linen, hemp, nettle, something else? It is very coarse and appears to be a twilled bast fiber. Do you think something like this might be appropriate: http://www.hemptraders.com/product_info....cts_id=254 for the back fabric?

The wires on the second image are curious. They have used flat wire which would suggest to me that they first drew it round and then went through the additional step of flattening it (and they did a very good job at it, its very square and even). Maybe it was flattened by hammering and then drawn through a squared off draw plate? Just speculating. It appears from the photo to be the same gauge as the scales. Also the wire seems to curve over as it comes up through the hole in the plate, it isn't just hammered flat. Perhaps that was done to give it a little bit of play for flexibility? It would mean the wire would be rather more evenly work hardened as it bends over, rather than being sharply kinked. Also the part of the wire coming through the lower hole and pointing upwards is shorter than the one coming down through the upper hole whose piece of wire is almost twice the length. I wonder if the upper wire would have more of a tendency to snag on the backing if it was longer. The downward pointing wire would just rub on the scale below.

Just some thoughts as I get going on the project.

Best,

Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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#45
Quote:They have used flat wire which would suggest to me that they first drew it round and then went through the additional step of flattening it (and they did a very good job at it, its very square and even). Maybe it was flattened by hammering and then drawn through a squared off draw plate? Just speculating. It appears from the photo to be the same gauge as the scales.

Hi Lucianus,
maybe they just cut strips from the sheet they used for the scales.
Saves a lot of work.
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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