Imperial Belts Finished

[Magnus]

Well, one is anyway. Dyed a dark blue...had some problems lining up the plates, as the rivets were soldered onto the back. I had to eyeball line them up, and as you can see there was varying success. Overall I'm happy with it, but it's not an artisan's grade belt by any means.



I have a question for the 2nd belt. I am putting less plates on...far less plates. Should I evenly space the plates out, or put them towards one end. For example, between the belt buckle plate, and the first pugio plate, I have 2 regular plates. Should I have them evenly spaced, or more towards the belt buckle?

[Rado]

Looks very well!

[markusaurelius]

Looks good! Most real roman gear was never artisan grade, usually full of natural hand made mistakes and errors. I find people try and make their pieces too perfect. As someone who has handled many original pieces this is the common theme I always see.

[66kbm]

Hi
One has to allow for the curvature of ones waist so belt plates will look better when the belt is worn/around ones waist. Qaulity is very good, one question, i maybee getting mixed up here but, are these the double belts you were making, one for the Pugio and one for the Gladius?
Kev

[Magnus]

Hey Kevin, you are correct. This will be the belt that holds the sword, but I'm not using frogs for the sword, just a simple thong to tie it on to the belt.

The second belt I still have to make the frogs and a simple buckle for it.

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

[Crispvs]

Looking good Magnus!

For a simple buckle which looked a bit different to everyone else's, you could always try making a bone one, like these two I did the other night, based on items 1195 and 1197 from Vindonissa (sorry about the poor quality photo and lack of clear detail - it would have been far better to take the picture in daylight).



Crispvs

[Magnus]

What particular type of bone should i look for? I can get cow easily enough...

[Crispvs]

Magnus,

You would need the rear shank bone (also known in some places as a shin bone) of an adult cow. This is the bone favoured by most bone carvers as it is a large bone which is triangular in section, meaning that you have three large, reasonably flat surfaces consisting of thick good quality bone, making it suitable for many bonework projects.

Cut the nocks off (many butchers will be happy to do this for you), scrape any meat or sinew off and push out the marrow before boiling the bone. This will cut down the time it takes to prepare the bone by two thirds or more. You will find that the ends of the bone are of thin spongy bone, but an inch and a half or so in from the cut ends, you should start to find increasingly thick good quality bone. By far the thickest bone will be at the mid point of the bone. This is likely to be too thick for a buckle (and would sentence you to hours of filing to get it to the right thickness) and is therefore good for such things as dice. The best bone for buckles is likely to be two to three inches from the cut end. You want the bone to be somewhere around a quarter inch thick and fairly flat.

Start by cutting out a square blank slightly larger than the buckle you intend to make and evening out the thickness. Then I would carefully draw the design for the item onto the bone in pencil (thereby avoiding the problem of biro ink being drawn into the bone by capillary action), making full use of careful measurements to ensure my drawing matched the original and then cut off the corners and remove material from the inside of the buckle by drilling holes which could be joined up by filing. I would do much of the rest of the work with needle files. Many people like to use a fret saw for much of this sort of thing, but I find it easier to use a hacksaw to cut out a very basic shape which can be finished off with filing and drilling and filing for the inside. Each to their own.

I hope that helps.

Crispvs

[ANTONIVS MAGNVS]

Thanks Crispvs. I think I may try this. Will it work on a dog bone treat like the LEG XX site recommends for the gladius?

[Crispvs]

Well, it is not so much the treat as what bone has been used to make the dog treat from. The bone you need for a gladius grip is the metatarsal bone (also known as the rear canon bone) of a calf. This is the ankle bone, rather than the shank bone which is commonly used for bonework and which would be far too big for a grip. The metatarsal bone is the only cow bone really suitable for a grip, due to the combination of a narrow round or somewhat square internal section and reasonably thick bone which can be carved down to attain the correct profile.
If you plan to work with bone you need to be able to recognise which bones are suitable for which projects, as different bones are different sizes, have differently shaped internal and external profiles, and differing thicknesses of usable bone. Many different bones are used for dog treats and so you need to know what shapes to look for before you go rummaging through a box of dog treats.

If you are unsure, your best option, to begin with anyway, is to ask a butcher for the particular bone you want. I made my sword handle from a variety of bones, according to shape, size and bone thickness. The pommel was made from a section of an adult cow's femure, this being a suitable size, thickness and external shape. The grip was made from a calf's metatarsal, as an adult's canon bone would have been too big. The guard was made from a section of an adult's metatarsal. The caps on the ends of the pommel and the plugs in the ends of the guard were made from shank bone, this being sufficiently thick and flat to make disc shaped pieces from. I did get the section of femur from a pet shop in the end but normally I get my bones from butchers, as they are generally cheaper and I also have control over where the bone is cut, as many pet bones are cut to lengths which make them unsuitable for the uses we might wish to use them for.
For a buckle, along with most other common bonework projects which (unlike sword grips) do not depend on the internal section or curvature, rear shank bone is the best option as it gives the best sections of usable bone which can be used for multiple purposes.

Crispvs

[Cavok]

Hi Crispus
As I live in Germany and will be having a word with the local Metzger (Butcher about this any chance of telling us the bones by numbers on this Picture?

It will make my Pidgeon Bavarian conversation much easier!.



[attachment]skeleton_22390.tiff[/attachment]


Cheers


Steve

[Cavok]

Hi Crispus,
As I have to do my negotiations with my local butcher in Pidgeon Bavarian could you help me/us out and tell us the numbers of the bones you are on about. I had a word with him yesterday and "cannon Knocke" bought on a very blank look. :oops:


[attachment=3260]skeleton_22390.jpg[/attachment]

Cheers, prost, Skol etc.

Steve

[caiusbeerquitius]

#18 and #13. "Metapodium".

[Crispvs]

Number 18 is the one you need for a sword grip. Number 13 normally has a 'D' shaped internal profile which makes it unsuitable for grips. The shank bone is the tibia. The best one is the rear (number 16) but you can also make good use of the foreleg shank bone (number 11).

For reference, and to avoid confusion, when we refer to 'nocks' in English we are referring to the bulbous ends of the bone. These are not normally much use to the bone worker and are best cut away.

Crispvs

[Cavok]

Thank you sir

Which were the ones you used on the pommels?