Montefortino from the River Adda in Pizzeghetone

[tiberius aemilius naso]

Hi! Lets see if someone can give me a hand. I am looking for pictures of a Montefortino helmet (Robinson type A, Paddock type VI) now kept in the Museo Civico di Cremona with the inventory number ST 11055 317 (332) (helmet from the River Adda in Pizzeghetone). For the moment i have just found a picture from the paper where it was published ("Un elmo con iscrizione latina arcaica al Museo di Cremona", Filippo Coarelli, 1976) and the drawing from the Paddock thesis. Does someone have, by chance, pictures of this helmet? A fellow italian from Cremona who can go for a walk to the museum? From a book i don't have? Maybe in the Romische Helme from Junkelmann...?

This picture is not included in the Helmet database:

[jho]

M. Junkelmann, "Römische Helme", ill.10 & 11 has the same image you posted plus one of the inscription. I can send you a copy if you PM me your email address but it will not add much to what you have already found.

[tiberius aemilius naso]

PM sent, thanks Jens!

Still looking for detailed (modern if possible) pictures!

[damianlz]

I dont know about pictures but I can give you technical details until the cows come home. What did you need/want to do with it?

[tiberius aemilius naso]

I am thinking on having a reproduction made for reenactment (so this topic would change to the reenactment category!), so i need as many photographic references as possible, to get it right. For example... ¿Are the cheek-pieces curved inwards or straight? ¿Where do they exactly fit in the helmet bowl? ¿How far from the front and rear part of the rim? ¿How is the shape of the bowl seen from the front? ¿The exact dimensions of the bowl? ¿And the exact shape/slope of the neckguard? ¿And the decoration of the bowl? I have a thorough description of the decoration in Coarelli's paper, but it's hard to imagine! Thanks a lot, Damian! All the information you can give me will be very appreciated!

[tiberius aemilius naso]

Concerning another helmet of this type, i have the dimensions from the Paddock thesis:

- Overall height: 215 mm
– Height: 190 mm
– Overall width: 235 mm
– Internal width: 210 mm
– Overall breadth: 195 mm
– Internal breadth: 183 mm

My English is limited... what is the difference between width and breadth? Which one refers to the distance from side to side and wich from front to back?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Width and Bredth are the same.

Side to side. = Width.
Front to back = length

[tiberius aemilius naso]

Thanks! But if they are the same... what are these measures refering to? If width is side to side, the other measure (i don't know why it says breadht) is supposed to be lenght... so are this helmets wider that lenghtier? Strange

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmm, looks to me someone didn't know the difference.
It could be they have used called the length width,
and the bredth was the width/bredth and left correct.
The length would include the rear neck guard, which looks to add 25mm to the length,
combined with the roll at the front.

[tiberius aemilius naso]

That's it! Thanks a lot, Byron!

[damianlz]

Actually I think (if this is based of paddocks book) the "overall" measurements are including crest mounts, neck guards etc while the internal breadths/widths are referring to the bowl component that the head would fit into

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That's it! Thanks a lot, Byron!

No problem. Just remember, when you get it made, to have your head measurement taken,
as the helmet may be too small. ;-) 8-)

[tiberius aemilius naso]

You are being ironic, aren't you?! I thought the helmet with its real size would be huge for me (my head is 58 cm of circunference, 23 inches, or 7 1/4 in hat size). I am convinced something is going to go wrong at the end, but i want to try it!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Sorry, just looked at the measurements...and you are correct, it is quite large as is! :-o
But it is important to get it made for your head, rather than someone elses...lol

[tiberius aemilius naso]

I keep thinking about this helmet! Let's see if someone can help me (again).

In the article where the helmet was first described ("Un elmo con iscrizione latina arcaica al museo di Cremona" Filippo Coarelli, 1976) I found something interesting, at least something I didn't know. It says about the cheek-guards:

"The paragnatide consists of two large overlapping laminae, perhaps with a central core of another material, the core sheet is fixed to the outer rim by folding, flattened around the margins."

The original in Italian:

"The paragnatide è gives due grosse costituita sovrapposte laminate, forse with centrale di altro un'anima materiale, the inner sheet to quella è fissata esterna by ripiegatura dell'orlo, ribattuto tutt'intorno margini ai."

Using google translate and common sense (some Italian fellow out there?), I conclude that the cheek-pieces are not made with a single sheet of bronze, but with three sheets, two of bronze with a sheet of other material between them! But it says, "forse with centrale di altro un'anima materiale" and forse means perhaps .... Is it true? Do you know of other cases like these, cheek-guards made ​​of two sheets? Is it common to Montefortinos and i ignored it? Is it a mistake?