Olympia Victim of parasites.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/02/...id%3D96702

[Epictetus]

The BBC says that the items stolen were clay and bronze statuettes. I don't see how the theives could sell these things without hard questions being asked. Unless, of course, they could find unscrupulous collectors who wouldn't ask any questions.

[Robert Vermaat]

Awful. I suspect they were stolen for collectors. :evil:

[hoplite14gr]

They stole some gold items too.
And they asked the guard where was the old post-stamps collection!!!! :!: :!: :!:
They just found "free lunch" but the items are documented and known. Every "fence" who want favors will "spill the beans" on them. :twisted:

Actually internationally the worst case have been raids in museum warehouses where tons of undocumented stuff still exists!

Yet if they get apprehended they could be useful in experimental archaeology.
Construction of a Scythian cup comes to mind and there is enough left for a Scythian drum or tow cups and two drums as they were two of them :twisted:

Kind regards

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Terrible news indeed. I just hope that with the decline Greece is seeing now this will not happen more often.

M.VIB.M.

[Ghostmojo]

Very saddened by this. I watched Channel 4 News last night which explored the issues.

It's a long time since I went to Olympia (mid 90s) but it is a great place. The museum is very interesting of course, but I just loved the whole area. It is a remarkable setting and even now has an atmosphere of being a very special location.

I call upon Olympian Zeus to punish the transgressors!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

When I was there in 2003, the museum was closed for refurbishment for the Olympics.
Now I will never see these things.

[Eleatic Guest]

Greece has been long losing not only its abilities, but also its pride, and has painfully come to realize now that both are in fact totally interrelated.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

What goes around, comes around.
I see big changes for many.
However, i would not say they are losing their abilities or their pride.
There were many talanted artists there when I was there, and the people
are not all workers in a padded Bureaucracy.
Unfortunately, thay have many problems with their system and it has become overloaded with
the influx of illegal immigrants it cannot afford to keep in the style the EU dictates.

However, we need to keep this to the subject and not stray into politics.
The thieves are more than likely foreign as well. ad:

[Nikanor]

Security comes only in relation to existing danger.

Many of the contributors to this forum have visited Greece and have noticed that in many museums of Greece, even many of the major ones, the existing security is at relatively low levels. In smaller ones, non-existing. Economic reasons? Indifference reasons? Not really. This has beem due for many reasons among which the primary one was the simply fact that the threat was relatively low. None would think stealing a museum since this would not be really profitable.

Normal criminals do not decide out of their own to steal a museum. Normal criminals will go wreck an electricity/telephone line and sell the copper - so easy, so profitable.

To steal a museum you need to have a collector buyer already making his order so as to know what to steal and what price to expect.

- Collectors of paintings indeed do need to steal museums since the paintings they are after are unique pieces stored there.
- However collectors of ancient items do not need to proceed to that. While success is more probable than failure, it is still dangerous to break into museums in the sense that people can get hurt (or even killed), and in case of being caught it may result in tears.

Then archaeological fetichs are mostly the big items, statues etc. - difficult to grab and carry in minutes - you need to send a whole army in there to take it like the French did to steal the Venus Aphrodite.

Collectors are after smaller objects mostly cos they are easier to handle and hide. And in this robbery they stole small items. But then why steal a museum? For 1 specific item?
Collectors traditionally got their stuff via illegal excavations. Genuine, uknown and not infrequently of larger importance and value to what we see in museums. They only have to pay 1-2 people and go dig. Below Greece's surface lie 1000s of years of intense human activity. It is easier than you think. I can tell you stories about Hollywood stars buying villas on Greek islands facing uninhabited rocky islands opposite with known sites - from which sites there have been seen yaghts arriving, loading, and leaving in the night... What can you do? Employ 10 million Greeks to guard day and night? Scan with satellites every rock, every mountain? Still the interest is so much that people will always want to take something and they will be digging and taking.

On the other side, why didn't collectors hit Greek museums in the past? None can say in the past there was better guarding.

Well the idea is not that.

The idea is what I had written in another forum (on geopolitics) 4 months ago that Greece will receive pressures regarding its own decision on its debt and what is proposed by its creditors and that in that process it will be hit with particular propagandistic - just like back in 2007 when, following 2006 signatures on profitable for Greece (but not others) gas deals, Greece was burned in flames with forest fires, helicopters carrying officials falling down, and kids were being murdered in streets by bullets falling from 180 angles only to provoke the "silly-youth" (anyway unemployed and discontent) to riot in the streets.

What I had proposed 4 months ago was that we would have hits on Greek museums as part of that propaganda-attacks that wish to bring the position of the country as low as possible. When you hit others you hit the economy, when you hit Greece you have to hit also the culture. Unfortunately my prediction proved correct.

You understand that this discussion leads us to other fields that have little to do with archaeology itself. In such issues, try to remain sober and think logically. Nothing is as simplistic as initially proposed.


Nikos

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No Nikos, nothing ever is. It's hard to debate such things on here without straying into politics though.

[hoplite14gr]

Final list of the stolen objects.

http://www.tovima.gr/files/1/2012/teliko...ympias.pdf

Please spread it.

Kind regards

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Added to my profile on FB.
Possibly know of one or two other forums to add this to as well.

[Nikanor]

No Nikos, nothing ever is. It's hard to debate such things on here without straying into politics though.

Precisely. And it is not my intention. Just helped to expand a bit the issue to get us thinking on this robbery in more ways and not just the straightforward (crisis = robberies) - one is forced to do if he really cares to find ways of how to protect better his heritage.

Stefanos thanks for the list. Seeing the list, what is interesting though is that most of the stuff is not really of high importance for collectors. Certainly valuable but not the sort for which collectors would order a break into a museum. Perhaps the Mycenaean era ones, and the golden stamp are more unique, indeed. The case of illiterate thieves who cannot recognise the valuable from the invaluable? Certainly when you plan to rob a museum you have visited it recently, at least 1-2 weeks before, you should know what is what. A client-collector should had told you then. One has though to note the weird reaction of the museum curator who said "They took only 'small' stuff, when they could had carried away some really serious stuff" to which the sensitive to such issues Greek public opinion reacted badly, I would say angrily, but giving it a second thought, it could actually hint to us something. Perhaps. Nasty talk of mine this above one but really I do try to understand.

Whatever the case, classical type robbery or a more suspicious one, it pains my heart to see the long list, "small stuff" or "big stuff" even the 'humble' lights, no matter if we find 1000s of those on every excavation.


I think one day globally we should sit down and discuss on the possibility of forcing private collections to become either transparent or preferably downright illegal. I see no point in the existence of a private collection. It is so tacky and lowly to branding in your... what? salon? office? real ancient artifacts.

Nikos

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually, I think there are a few pieces in there that are of importance. the other 'less' important artifacts could well be the smoke screen.
But I don't know.
How ever, I think private collections should not be banned, but I agree they should at least be transparent...although in some ways, they perhaps preserve some things from theprying eyes of theives as a side effect.