Basic pay of the late roman army

[Robert Vermaat]

What evidence does Treadgold give for this? I'd always thought that pay remained nearly the same throughout the third century, at about Severan levels, with assorted supplements...

Treadgold writes (p.154-5) that most of this was in donatives (I did not say it was basic pay :wink, "because after the inflation of the 3rd c. the official soldier's pay of 1.800 denarii was worth less than 2 later nomismata. Because the men's arms and uniforms were also supplied in kind, the comparable figures would be 9 nomismata for field soldiers before Anastasius' reforms (3 less than under Diocletian) and about 15 nomismata afterward (3 more than under Diocletian). "

He refers (p. 155 note 94) to Duncan-Jones, 'Pay under Diocletian'pp. 549-51. Treadgold took those figures (ralation to the year 300) and converted them into gold on the basis of Diocletians Edict, 28.1, which sets the price of a pound of gold (72 later nomismata) at 72.000 denarii in 301. These maximum prices soon all proved to low.

Several pages of this argument can be found here on Google books:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=xfV0LkMN...&q&f=false

[Nathan Ross]

everal pages of this argument can be found here on Google books:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=xfV0LkMN...&q&f=false

Thanks for the reference! From what I can gather from the little snippets provided, (p.154) "Under Diocletian, before the distinction between frontier and field armies was made, papyrii indicate that ordinary soldiers received pay and donatives of 12000 denarii a year, the equivilent of 10 aurei of that date or 12 later..."

But by my sums above (using the figures from what must be same papyrii!), basic pay and donatives would only equal 4350 denarii - just over a third of Treadgold's amount. So where did the extra 7650 denarii come from? Boots and uniforms can't cost that much - or is he including other 'in kind' material too?

[Delenii]

Hi Robert

Would the soliders receive thier pay in Solidus of the other coinslike Miliarense, Siliqua, Follis and Nummus. These were the coins used in 337-476. So for example if a soldier got paid 12 Solidus that would be 86400 Nummus. As that converts to 12 Solidus.

[Robert Vermaat]

Would the soliders receive thier pay in Solidus of the other coinslike Miliarense, Siliqua, Follis and Nummus. These were the coins used in 337-476. So for example if a soldier got paid 12 Solidus that would be 86400 Nummus. As that converts to 12 Solidus.

It still depends on the period, but let's continue with Diocletian.
His soldiers received 12.000 denarii worth of pay, of which 5.000 in kind (arms and clothing).
According to the papyrus mentioned by Nathan, basic pay in coin was 600 denarii.
This was enhanced by donatives for the birthday and accession day for every Augustus and Caesar, as well as for their consulates.
Legionaries received 1.250 denarii for each celebration of an Augustus, and half that sum for a celebration of a Caesar.
That would indeed be 7.500 denarii every year, which combined to the 5.000 denarii in kind would amount to that 12.000 denarii (and more when the emperors were consuls as well).
I'm still not sure what was actually paid, because some of the donatives were not in denarii: the donative for the accession day of the Augustus was 5 solidi and a pound of silver. A solidus was the same as a later numisma, therefore equaling 1.000 denarii. I don't know the rate of a pound of silver in denarii.

This was not a lot of money. Inflation was rampant and Diocletian failed to halt this with his price Edict of 301.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Nathan,

But by my sums above (using the figures from what must be same papyrii!), basic pay and donatives would only equal 4350 denarii - just over a third of Treadgold's amount. So where did the extra 7650 denarii come from? Boots and uniforms can't cost that much - or is he including other 'in kind' material too?

Treadgold reckons that arms and clothing consisted of 5 nomosmata, leaving 7 nomismata of pay AND donatives. Are you sure the papyri include donatives? Treadgold also mentions donatives that occur every 5 years ('quinquennial') as well as extras for jubilees.

It's not easy to see how Treadgold arrives at his numbers, because he spends a lot of time and space arguing his case, in effect going back from 811 to Justinian and then back to Diocletian, taking into account all know changes, reforms, etc. See my answwer below to Danyal, it's based on Jones, The Later Roman Empire, p. 623.

[Delenii]

Hi Robert


The period I am interested in is the 5th century around 430AD to 470 would like to know the average yearly pay for the soldiers in the western empire around that time.

[Robert Vermaat]

OK, that's Anastasius. I'll look up for you what we've got.

[markusaurelius]

Not sure reviving an old thread is the best idea, but I was hoping someone could help with trying to determine the value of silver during the late Roman empire, say 4th Century. Also how this related to soldier pay would be of interest, as I'm trying to gauge how much value the silver was in a later roman helmet of the period.

Is there any conversion known for say the Siliqua (~1.3g) of silver vs. the Solidus? This would assist in getting an idea of the value in the silver as much of soldier pay seems to be related to the Solidus.

[Longovicium]

Not sure if the following article answers your query exactly but it does provide some good information:

https://www.academia.edu/6192612/Paying_...ian_Period