Belt Advice on Construction

[Titus Marius Secundus]

oops, found a perfect item! http://zackwhite.com/xcart/home.php?cat=258

[Athena Areias]

Good! I'm glad you found something. I was ordering full sides to line my shield with and later to make my spolas (body armor). More than belting, obviously.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

it's actually, to what I've seen for natural tanned leather, REALLY CHEAP ( for some things ) but most I REALLY appreciate the help Might order tonight. I'll also order leather for a scabbard there, but um...do they do dying? Or is that easy enough for me to do?

Sam

[66kbm]

Dyeing is easy...i was very dubious about it the first time i tried...use Fieblings but be sure to confirm the color to be used with other members first.
Its a matter of rubbing/applying the dye as you would neadsfoot oil/dubbin.
Kevin

[66kbm]

Same dye..same belt..different angles and a flash changes the look big time
1st pic belt ready for assembly...second pic assembled
Kevin

[M. Demetrius]

Sometimes alcohol based dyes can rub off on clothing when they get wet, so test a piece first. If it looks like it might fade, there are glazes/lacquers you can cover the dyed surface with. That seals the color against water.

I'm told (but have not yet tried) that the black dye from vinegar and iron gives a good finish that will not rub off, and needs no sealer.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

may I ask how you stitch the belt and why? Are there two pieces? What do you recommend? I order two thin belt blanks to sew together? or just stitch one for decor? I really like the idea of stitching! Makes it look so much more complete...but why?

Can you give me the thickness of a buckle at it's thickest areas? In mm if you can!

Thank you all for your very helpful advice!

[66kbm]

Re stitching on the belt
This provides re-inforcement on the edges of the belt when the belt plates are in place....as to weather 2 pieces of leather were used, i think the Jury is out on that one. The one shown is 1 piece leather stiched by a friend....its beyond my capabilities and patience to do that.
As for historical context on the "Apron" straps...check out this link...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/20524593/The-e...rial-apron
This shows a surviving apron strap that was stitched.
Hope that helps.
Kevin

[Athena Areias]

Re: Black dye from "vinegaroon" (not the scorpion species) - It does a fine job! It takes about two weeks to do its chemistry. I painted it on my veg tan spolas pieces before stitching it together. You have to give the leather a baking soda bath to stop the process when it it black enough for you. I used neat's foot oil on it afterdrying the leather because the leather loses a lot of flexibility doing this technique. It is black as black can get, though. Vinegaroon is said to weaken the leather. I believe this, but since the Amish use it for harness dyeing, it can't be much. The oil treatment (like working a baseball glove) seemed to restore it. Don't let it splash on your clothes. It can spot them. I will post a pic when I have one.

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

For a demonstration of the "rust" dye on my Comacchio bag:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...=40#291222

And that was just after 1 night letting the iron/steel wool soak in vinegar.

If oiled, it becomes a lot deeper (after dying but before oiling it might look like dark grey).

[Titus Marius Secundus]

This is very interesting and after reading the thread, I am wondering if the rust method would actually spread or become messy if dampened, which was mentioned.

Are there any other traditional methods to dying leather? So a few days back I was gonna buy some but when I saw 7/8 weight, I realized that was measuring under one OZ :oops: I will make some calls Monday and hopefully order over phone exactly what I need I am looking at 2 1/4 width by about 48 + inches of natural vegetable leather. I think I may order leather for the "apron" as well. Lengths of maybe 14 inches, 3/4 of an inch sounds right. I imagine the thickness needs only be of something 3 oz's...

I went to the Pet Store today and guess what?! Well for the steady process of another gladius, (which I am not decisive on which time era, suggestions welcome) a very helpful lady showed me the different bones of a cow. It was when she showed, ( to my knowledge thanks to Crispvs) the FEMUR bone, ( about over a foot in length!) I finally found what I will need. Just to clarify, the correct Femur bone, is actually the big bone from the cows back leg yes? :S IT'S MASSIVE!!! I'm excited

J-kaler was very nice and sent me a helmet to fix up etc. I will get another memory card for my camera and I will put up some pics of the process. Mostly basic things for now until I have the time to forge a brow piece at a friend's place.

Out of 4-2's I've got a stand ready for the complete gear, about ready. Needs screwing together and whatnot but I'm getting very excited about getting this together.

As for belt plates, I was suggested 10" thou, but I have a tool which measures in 5 -100 thou and ten thou seems a bit thin for my personal liking. According to my tool there's a significant difference, in a beneficial way, between 10" and 15". 15 will probably be a bit better but not too thick to affect stamping strike. In my photo of the prototype, I believe that's about 15" or more.

Is all I can think of for now. Just been having very busy schedules with non-Roman priorities. I am having fun though, so thanks for any help and come Monday which is my only day off, I will have some more news.

Sam

[Athena Areias]

Re: The rust method. It is not a dye per se. It chemically changes the composition of the leather and comes out black, if you let it. The ferrous acid reacts with the tannins in the leather. That's why you "stop" it with the baking soda bath. I cut through a piece of my leather and it was black all the way through. Once it is dry, it is set.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

hmm right, and the baking soda only helps stop it blackening completely, or does it result a reddish color? Seems really interesting now we're talking chemistry!

[Athena Areias]

The bath halts the acidic attack on the leather. The blackness results from the time left on the leather (or you keep coating the leather with more solution). If you let the acid keep going (to drying out) without neutralizing it, the leather fibers ARE damaged and very stiff. See if the are any images on You Tube or Google. I'll try to find the links I used...

[Crispvs]

Sam,
Sorry to have taken so long to reply. To my eyes your pommel looks like a Pompeii type. This should be accompanied by a guard in the same wood which is close to being round in plan view. As I said above, the guard should be recessed but there should probably not be a brass plate, the shoulders of the blade resting in this recession instead.

Regarding the bone element, if this is for the grip, then a femur would (as I think you suspect) be far too large. My mention of a femur was in relation to the pommel and possibly the guard of a handle assemblage completely composed of bone. For a grip, you need the rear canon bone (metatarsal) of a calf. This has thick bone and a narrow internal space which is more or less round. Be careful not to buy the metatarsal bone of an adult animal, as the internal section will be too large. Similarly, avoid the front canon (metacarpal) bones. These have a 'D' shaped section which produces too large an internal space to grip a sword tang.

Crispvs