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Real dimensions of Late Roman spearheads
#1
This is my first thread here, I'm following RAT Forums from years, but being my English really bad (I'm Italian) I read, read and read finding all very interesting!! Now I changed my mind and I decided to add my poor English at your debate :evil: !!!

Like in the title my question concern the real dimensions of the Late Roman spearheads, I have a lot of good illustrations of the various type of spears/heavy trowing spears used in the Late Roman Army, I'm particulary interested in the dimensions of the blade of weapon like Veruta or lancea, expecially compared to the more common Javelins types.
The balades of the Veruta and lancea seem quite long and large in the drawings, what were their real dimensions, what was the max width of the balde and what was its max lenght? and those of the late kinds of pila? last: Cavalry types had similar dimensions?
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#2
Quote:This is my first thread here, I'm following RAT Forums from years, but being my English really bad (I'm Italian) I read, read and read finding all very interesting!! Now I changed my mind and I decided to add my poor English at your debate :evil: !!!

Like in the title my question concern the real dimensions of the Late Roman spearheads, I have a lot of good illustrations of the various type of spears/heavy trowing spears used in the Late Roman Army, I'm particulary interested in the dimensions of the blade of weapons like Veruta or lancea, expecially compared to the more common Javelins types.
The balades of the Veruta and lancea seem quite long and large in the drawings, which were their real dimensions, what was the max width of the balde and what was its the lenght? and the late forms of pila? last: Cavalry type had similar dimensions?
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#3
You're english is quite easily understandable. No problem with that! Glad you joined in with some questions!
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#4
Comitatus supplies it's members with equipment, and some members chose to buy their own. Some measurements are given here.

http://comitatus.net/fabrica.html

This is in no way an advert, but just to give you something to go on ASAP.Good luck.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#5
Quote:This is my first thread here, I'm following RAT Forums from years, but being my English really bad (I'm Italian) I read, read and read finding all very interesting!! Now I changed my mind and I decided to add my poor English at your debate :evil: !!!

Like in the title my question concern the real dimensions of the Late Roman spearheads, I have a lot of good illustrations of the various type of spears/heavy trowing spears used in the Late Roman Army, I'm particulary interested in the dimensions of the blade of weapon like Veruta or lancea, expecially compared to the more common Javelins types.
The balades of the Veruta and lancea seem quite long and large in the drawings, what were their real dimensions, what was the max width of the balde and what was its max lenght? and those of the late kinds of pila? last: Cavalry types had similar dimensions?

I think the first issue with your question is determining what are veruta, lancea, hasta, spiculum etc from Late Roman artwork such as mosaics, wall paintings, monumental works, dyptches etc. The pen & ink drawings of the Column of Theodosius show infantry with a very short spear, yet other Late Roman art shows them with a long spear such as the Stilicho dyptch.

Vegetius stated that veruta were shorter than the spiculum, in which case are the infantry armed with the short spear in the pen and ink drawings noted above armed with veruta? And is Stilicho armed with a spiculum?
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#6
Well , thanks dear guys, as Valentinian says we should clearly define the various types and identify exactly what distinguish a veruta from a lancea, but....if we speak of dimensions of the balde we could be able to fix a max and a min regardless of the type.

Thanks Jhon for the link, am I right if I say that the dimensions of the blade could vary between 19/20 and 29/30 cm.?
The cavalry types were more heavy? Can we distinguish between cavalry types and infantry types?
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#7
Quote:
Carlo Cappati post=306054 Wrote:This is my first thread here, I'm following RAT Forums from years, but being my English really bad (I'm Italian) I read, read and read finding all very interesting!! Now I changed my mind and I decided to add my poor English at your debate :evil: !!!

Like in the title my question concern the real dimensions of the Late Roman spearheads, I have a lot of good illustrations of the various type of spears/heavy trowing spears used in the Late Roman Army, I'm particulary interested in the dimensions of the blade of weapon like Veruta or lancea, expecially compared to the more common Javelins types.
The balades of the Veruta and lancea seem quite long and large in the drawings, what were their real dimensions, what was the max width of the balde and what was its max lenght? and those of the late kinds of pila? last: Cavalry types had similar dimensions?

I think the first issue with your question is determining what are veruta, lancea, hasta, spiculum etc from Late Roman artwork such as mosaics, wall paintings, monumental works, dyptches etc. The pen & ink drawings of the Column of Theodosius show infantry with a very short spear, yet other Late Roman art shows them with a long spear such as the Stilicho dyptch.

Vegetius stated that veruta were shorter than the spiculum, in which case are the infantry armed with the short spear in the pen and ink drawings noted above armed with veruta? And is Stilicho armed with a spiculum?

I thought Stilicho Holds a Hasta/Contus in that Dyptch? The Spicula was weighted and was a leaf-blad head on an iron shaft like a pilum, I'll get my source for this must pull up the file, but the modern reconstructions depict it that way.

Stilicho's spear is only a Leaf-Blade head on a wooden pole.
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#8
http://comitatus.net/gallerymissile.html

shows one interpretation.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#9
Quote:The Spicula was weighted and was a leaf-blad head on an iron shaft like a pilum, I'll get my source for this must pull up the file, but the modern reconstructions depict it that way.
Do they? I never heard of a weighted spear besides the pilum and the plumbata. It's a mistake to see the spiculum as a pilum under a different name.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#10
[attachment=2948]2325a.jpg[/attachment]
2./3. Jhdt. n. Chr. Schmiedeeisen. Gegratete Spitze mit unterseitigen Widerhaken an langem Schaft. Konische, einseitig gelochte Tülle. Gereinigter, gut erhaltener Bodenfund. Länge 41,5 cm. Quelle: Hermann-Historica Auktionen, Muenchen

2. / 3. Century. Wrought Iron AD. Peak with ridged underside barbs on a long shaft. Conical, single perforated spout. Purified, well-preserved archaeological find. Length of 41.5 cm. Source: Hermann Historica auction, Munich

I am guessing this is a little early, but might it not be a precursor to the spicula?


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Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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