Thermopylae Film!

[Lyceum]

Some friends and I had a similar discussion a while back (basically playfully poking fun at a paper one of us had recently given you see) and we basically decided that it would be really cool to do this film from a "contextual" perspective. Not giving a shit about the meaningless labels the non academic community stupidly puts on these things Persia vs Greeks, East vs West, Clash of Civilisations etc etc....instead the story could be fleshed out rather well across two films giving an overarching account detailing the Persian and Hellenic backgrounds...show the story in all with all its massive complexities.

Essentially it would be really good to start with the peoples of Mikrasia and go from there. There are actually several intertwining story lines that way.

One can dream..

Yes, this is what I was looking for! Perhaps the story would be far to complex to flesh out in the short span of a film, maybe a mini-series would be preferable? Now, if we are talking mini series, then perhaps we begin with the Ionian revolt and work our way from there? Hm...



Thanks for humoring me guys, I am laid up with bronchitis and bored to tears! mile:

Get well soon. Also I don't think length/complexity will put too many people off. It might not make as much as Star Wars but still.

The trick is to not make it an action film, not about opposition, but about the people themselves. The Ionians really need to be the focal point, yes.

[Dithrambus]

Some friends and I had a similar discussion a while back (basically playfully poking fun at a paper one of us had recently given you see) and we basically decided that it would be really cool to do this film from a "contextual" perspective. Not giving a shit about the meaningless labels the non academic community stupidly puts on these things Persia vs Greeks, East vs West, Clash of Civilisations etc etc....instead the story could be fleshed out rather well across two films giving an overarching account detailing the Persian and Hellenic backgrounds...show the story in all with all its massive complexities.

Essentially it would be really good to start with the peoples of Mikrasia and go from there. There are actually several intertwining story lines that way.

One can dream..

Yes, this is what I was looking for! Perhaps the story would be far to complex to flesh out in the short span of a film, maybe a mini-series would be preferable? Now, if we are talking mini series, then perhaps we begin with the Ionian revolt and work our way from there? Hm...



Thanks for humoring me guys, I am laid up with bronchitis and bored to tears! mile:

Get well soon. Also I don't think length/complexity will put too many people off. It might not make as much as Star Wars but still.

The trick is to not make it an action film, not about opposition, but about the people themselves. The Ionians really need to be the focal point, yes.

Thanks, I'm hoping for a better day tomorrow (or its off to the doctor for a session of poking and prodding hock: :lol: ).


Yes, action of course, but not an "action film".

Now I am picturing a two to three season long HBO series type of production. I rather enjoyed Rome and was disappointed to see it end, anyone have any contacts within the HBO hierarchy? 8-)

[Ghostmojo]

There were plans for a Thermopylai film several years ago. Michael Mann had written a treatment. Third time lucky?

This was the screen rights to Pressfields Book!

I have to admit, I wasn't aware of that. I read quite a lot about that at the time, but don't remember the Pressfield novel being cited extensively. If this was the case, well I would still be against it. The story of Thermopylai should be told with Leonidas as the focal point - not making some kind of socio-political point about the helots which only confuses the story from the audience point of view.

Surely, the original story is substantial enough, without having to resort to some latterday fictionalised account of it? That was the problem with both The 300 Spartans and 300 in their different ways - they strayed from Herodotos and added unnecessary BS.

[Dithrambus]

There were plans for a Thermopylai film several years ago. Michael Mann had written a treatment. Third time lucky?

This was the screen rights to Pressfields Book!

I have to admit, I wasn't aware of that. I read quite a lot about that at the time, but don't remember the Pressfield novel being cited extensively. If this was the case, well I would still be against it. The story of Thermopylai should be told with Leonidas as the focal point - not making some kind of socio-political point about the helots which only confuses the story from the audience point of view.

Surely, the original story is substantial enough, without having to resort to some latterday fictionalised account of it? That was the problem with both The 300 Spartans and 300 in their different ways - they strayed from Herodotos and added unnecessary BS.

If Hollywood were to insist on a novel adaptation for such a film, then Gates would be the most desirable choice (of the novels I have read), I do however completely agree that the story should be told direct from Herodotus. The legend as given by the man himself needs no embellishment and I would rather not see questionable additions to the story, (such as the night time raid on the Persian camp to assassinate Xerxes) and while I did find Pressfield's fictional approach to the story enjoyable (E.S. Kraay's The Olympian was also an interesting twist), I too would rather see a more historically accurate portrayal. :-)

[Vindex]

Have any of you read "Tell them in Sparta" by Roderick Milton?

[Dithrambus]

Have any of you read "Tell them in Sparta" by Roderick Milton?

I have not, appears to be a very hard to find novel, though I did find it at Google books:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Tell...4SPAAACAAJ

[Ghostmojo]

... I do however completely agree that the story should be told direct from Herodotus. The legend as given by the man himself needs no embellishment and I would rather not see questionable additions to the story, (such as the night time raid on the Persian camp to assassinate Xerxes) ...

Curiously, I can actually live with the additions by Diodoros Siculus. At least his account is an ancient source. It is questionable and singular to his own commentary, that is perfectly true, but is of more relevance and value than any modern reinterpretation. The possibility of this raid is dubious I agree, but a case for inclusion could be made since: (a) the 300 would have included troops who had served in the Krypteia, who would have been familiar with such nocturnal ventures; and (b) such an attack upon Xerxes' own person might have explained his personal ire towards Leonidas (and later desecration of his corpse) which was otherwise quite contrary to Persian military custom.

I've not read the Milton book - but flipping though the pages (courtesy of google books) it strikes me as a typical historic yarn. He says Leonidas was in his early 40s for a kick-off. Looks like a 'boy's own' story of a legend!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed Rome the series, but that was quite embellished too! 8)
True, it would be very good to have the story played out as it happened.
However, who would make it?
However, making a series is different to a movie. LOTR succeeded over three,
but one film would be difficult to make t ocover your desire for the whole period of time to be covered.
ROME was a multi million dollar event. Too bad they did not start it sooner i nCaesars life...
Still it would be nice if someone was to catch this idea, but who will screen write it?
I am still waiting for them to get off their asses and do Gates of Fire.. :evil:
The BS you mention seems to go hand in hand with any attempt at making films and TV series.

[Vindex]

Have any of you read "Tell them in Sparta" by Roderick Milton?

I have not, appears to be a very hard to find novel, though I did find it at Google books:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Tell...4SPAAACAAJ

It's perhaps more of a young adult book similar in vein to Sutcliffe's Eagle of the Ninth but FAR better than any of the Mary Renault books IMO. I read it when I was 10 and it inspired all of my future interest in Greek History, particularly the Spartans...and this coupled with seeing Ben Hur at a similarly tender age sealed my fate into doing Ancient History as a degree.

I have a very precious (not in monetary terms!!) First Edition of the book and I read it once a year.

[Dithrambus]

Have any of you read "Tell them in Sparta" by Roderick Milton?

I have not, appears to be a very hard to find novel, though I did find it at Google books:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Tell...4SPAAACAAJ

It's perhaps more of a young adult book similar in vein to Sutcliffe's Eagle of the Ninth but FAR better than any of the Mary Renault books IMO. I read it when I was 10 and it inspired all of my future interest in Greek History, particularly the Spartans...and this coupled with seeing Ben Hur at a similarly tender age sealed my fate into doing Ancient History as a degree.

I have a very precious (not in monetary terms!!) First Edition of the book and I read it once a year.

I wouldn't mind having a copy, I have a 13 year old son who would probably enjoy it as well. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my first exposure to the Spartans/Thermopylae was 1962's The 300 Spartans, we lived in south Florida and there was no shortage of sugar cane poles for spears and my aspis was one of the old round metal trash can lids (anyone remember those?) Only difference now is that my toys are somewhat more historically accurate. :grin:

[Vindex]

I wouldn't mind having a copy, I have a 13 year old son who would probably enjoy it as well. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my first exposure to the Spartans/Thermopylae was 1962's The 300 Spartans, we lived in south Florida and there was no shortage of sugar cane poles for spears and my aspis was one of the old round metal trash can lids (anyone remember those?) Only difference now is that my toys are somewhat more historically accurate. :grin:

Copies are indeed like hens' teeth I'm afraid.

But here's a review to give you an idea

http://www.sparta.markoulakispublication....php?id=40

[Ghostmojo]

... and my aspis was one of the old round metal trash can lids (anyone remember those?) ...

Just the same as in the 1962 film! :lol:

[Ghostmojo]

It's perhaps more of a young adult book similar in vein to Sutcliffe's Eagle of the Ninth but FAR better than any of the Mary Renault books IMO. I read it when I was 10 and it inspired all of my future interest in Greek History, particularly the Spartans...

Funnily enough, I read Mary Renault's Lion In The Gateway at that tender age and it too certainly piqued my interest. It's about context I guess. These books are great for getting young teenagers into ancient history - assuming you can get them away from the PS3 for long enough!!! :wink:

[Dithrambus]

... and my aspis was one of the old round metal trash can lids (anyone remember those?) ...

Just the same as in the 1962 film! :lol:

Wow, you are really on tonight! I think you've possibly exceeded your wine ration for the evening.. :lol:

[Narukami]

Very interesting discussion and many good points have been made.

A couple of thoughts if I may ...


First, Pop Classics (who has a degree in the classics) has just written a very amusing review of that old Hollywood Warhorse, The 300 Spartans. You will find her review here:

http://popclassicsjg.blogspot.com/

For those who may not be familiar with her blog, I recommend it highly -- her writing is excellent and her wit quite sharp. (That said, I do like this film more than she does. :wink: )

And second, with regards to a new film about this battle, as several others have said, we should think not in terms of a feature film, but rather of a limited series, a format currently being used with great success by HBO. Even with a single season of 10 - 13 episodes there would be ample time to allow the story to develop and for the characters to become three dimensional.

I think Pressfield's book would be a good start and if not the source material than perhaps the series "bible" so to speak. (I agree that the HBO Rome series would have been more fun if they had started earlier in the time line, say with Sulla. They should have used Tom Holland's book, Rubicon, as their series bible.)

If funding could be found, this series might be able to pull off the fabled "Hat Trick" --
Be entertaining
Be historically accurate
Be profitable

And finally, as others have noted, George Clooney did option the rights to Gates Of Fire (I once found a pre-publication copy of the book with a cover sheet outlining Clooney's involvement. It was siting at a used bookstore in North Hollywood - Would that I had the wit to purchase that copy.) but the project never got out of Development Hell thanks in large part to all of the other films that did make it before the cameras only to stumble at the box office. After all, they call it Show Business for a reason. More is the pity.

:wink:

Narukami