March speed rates

[ValentinianVictrix]

I am hoping the esteemed people here can help me.
I am currently carrying out some research and I need references and quotes about typical rates of march for Roman armies, on road and off road. I have a quote that states a Roman army could march '20 miles in 5 summer hours', but this quote is not referenced at all.
Any help gratefully received.

[Nathan Ross]

It's from Vegetius, Book I, on the training of recruits:

"They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours. If they exceed this pace, they no longer march but run, and no certain rate can be assigned."

This is twenty Roman miles, which is about eighteen modern miles. Presumably it's also on decent roads. One of the strings of marching camps across eastern Scotland appears to have camps spaced at intervals of almost exactly ten miles, and that might seem a better estimate for marching in hostile territory.

[D B Campbell]

I have a quote that states a Roman army could march '20 miles in 5 summer hours', but this quote is not referenced at all.

Vegetius, Epitoma rei militaris I.9.

Edit: Oops, just bumped into Nathan! :lol:

[ValentinianVictrix]

Thanks to you both, and of course I should have known that one from Vegetius!!!
Are there any other references other than Vegetius to marching rates?

[D B Campbell]

Herbert Benario has some discussion: http://www.jstor.org/pss/526561

[ValentinianVictrix]

Thanks Duncan, unfortunately I was a cheapskate and did not take up the full Roman Society membership this year so I have to pay for Jstor these days. I think I will phone the Society and upgrade my membership.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

This is twenty Roman miles, which is about eighteen modern miles. Presumably it's also on decent roads. One of the strings of marching camps across eastern Scotland appears to have camps spaced at intervals of almost exactly ten miles, and that might seem a better estimate for marching in hostile territory.

You can almost see the increase in pace from Normandykes to the camps north of Bennachie!
Although I wonder if they may have encamped right on the coast and recieved intelligence on the
gathering from the fleet itself...

the imagination can do many things lol

[M. Demetrius]

Edit: Oops, just bumped into Nathan!

Were either of you injured? :roll: :grin:

[D B Campbell]

One of the strings of marching camps across eastern Scotland appears to have camps spaced at intervals of almost exactly ten miles, and that might seem a better estimate for marching in hostile territory.

Interesting point. But if you mean the (probably) Severan camps that run north from Newstead (clearly a favourite mustering point for northern campaigns) via St Leonards and Channelkirk to Pathhead, their close spacing (seven or eight miles) has more to do with their gigantic size (c. 165 acres). Can you imagine how long it takes to vacate a camp that size? hock:

[D B Campbell]

unfortunately ... I have to pay for Jstor these days.

Benario cites Caesar, BCiv. III.76, where the received text refers to Caesar repeating his previous day's march of eight Roman miles. But Benario suggests that this is too short a distance, so the text should read "eighteen" instead (under the influence of the Vegetius passage mentioned above). Hmmm ... :|

He also cites Tacitus, Hist. III.78-79, where the Flavian army marches from Oriculum to Saxa Rubra, a distance of 35 miles, in a day. But they were keen to get there in a hurry! :wink:

[M. Caecilius]

I found some information in K. Gilliver, The Roman Art of War, p.49ff.

a) Caesar, BG V.46-47: Caesar force-marched his legionaries 20 miles in a day to rescue Q. Cicero, after awaiting to be relieved by Crassus, who had marched 25 miles between midnight and the third hour (around 9 am).

b) Livy, 27.43-49: C. Claudius Nero marches some 250 miles in seven days to reinforce M. Livius Salinator at Metaurus. This averages at 35,7 miles a day. Livy mentions that "there was no loitering, no straggling, no halt except while taking food; they marched day and night; they gave to rest hardly enough time for the needs of their bodies."

She also notes that the Caesarian army was marching without the baggage train, as Livy also says of Claudius Nero's consular force: "Claudius' army had brought with it on its expedition hardly anything besides its arms". (ibid, 27.47). Gilliver further uses archaeological evidence in Scotland (cf. Nathan's post above) to support the idea that the normal marching distance was rather below 18 miles, although rivers and other terrain would further reduce the possible distances - as Nathan has pointed out above (Gilliver, p.49-50).

[Sean Manning]

One of the strings of marching camps across eastern Scotland appears to have camps spaced at intervals of almost exactly ten miles, and that might seem a better estimate for marching in hostile territory.

Interesting point. But if you mean the (probably) Severan camps that run north from Newstead (clearly a favourite mustering point for northern campaigns) via St Leonards and Channelkirk to Pathhead, their close spacing (seven or eight miles) has more to do with their gigantic size (c. 165 acres). Can you imagine how long it takes to vacate a camp that size? hock:

Indeed. Engels has some good explanations of why large armies rarely move faster than 15-20 miles per day, and why the size of the marching force is crucial. Vegetius' five hours of marching (5/12 of the time from sunrise to sunset, not 5 x 60 x 60 seconds) probably includes time for the end of the column, which set out late, to make its way to the new camp and for the front of the column to build it (and for any time lost to halts).

[ValentinianVictrix]

Thanks again everyone for all your help, it has been very, very useful.

Would it be incorrect to think therefore that an army marching without its baggage train may be able to attain road marching speeds if travelling off road, or would that still be too quick?

[D B Campbell]

The Caesar example (BGall. 5.46-47) is interesting -- surprising that Benario missed it.

b) Livy, 27.43-49: C. Claudius Nero marches some 250 miles in seven days to reinforce M. Livius Salinator at Metaurus. This averages at 35,7 miles a day. Livy mentions that "there was no loitering, no straggling, no halt except while taking food; they marched day and night; they gave to rest hardly enough time for the needs of their bodies."

Benario has this one, as well. Claudius Nero marches from Canusium to Sena Gallica "in six days". (Gilliver seems to say seven days. I cannot see where Livy gives any indication of the time. Can you?) Certainly, Livy (27.50) says that the return march was faster and took five days!

If Benario's estimate of the distance is correct -- he cites the Itinerarium Antonini, which records 336 Roman miles -- then this is truly staggering. Suspiciously so. :?

Edit: Benario has one more example: "Caesar reports in BG vii. 40-41 that four legions without packs marched fifty miles within twenty-four hours, with a break of three hours" (p. 360, n. 146). I think Caesar actually says that they marched twenty-three miles out, rested for three hours in the night, and returned before sunrise. Again, there were special circumstances.

[M. Caecilius]

Benario has this one, as well. Claudius Nero marches from Canusium to Sena Gallica "in six days". (Gilliver seems to say seven days. I cannot see where Livy gives any indication of the time. Can you?) Certainly, Livy (27.50) says that the return march was faster and took five days!

You're right: Livy doesn't actually mention how fast Nero reached his colleague on the way up. There also does not seem to be enough structure to his narrative to count the days as you go. It is equally interesting that Benario and Gilliver give the longer march in stressing their points rather than the even faster return.

If Benario's estimate of the distance is correct -- he cites the Itinerarium Antonini, which records 336 Roman miles -- then this is truly staggering. Suspiciously so. :?

Possibly. Livy has some known issues with sources he uses. No idea whether he actually had access to, and bothered to consult, military records, or based himself on an earlier annalist or a Greek source and misread something.

The march appears to have been well-planed, as Nero had apparently sent ahead to the farms to requisition rations and animals to carry those soldiers slacking or to fatigued to carry on; presumably, those animals were changed as often as possible. These were also picked troops, so not the common soldiery; we may perhaps speculate that even the more burdensome armour was left behind (e.g. pectorales instead of hamatae). This begins to look like the Tour de France without bicycles (now, there's a comparison!), but with the relays, the planning, the support crews stationed along the way, and with probably the same effect on the participants. Livy doesn't mention how many soldiers dropped out on the way, but he does tell us that Nero picked up veterans on the road north. I wonder how many of the 6000 infantry Nero took up were amongst the 8000 Roman casualties in the battle; the men must have been utterly exhausted. But again, that is speculation.

The march had to be fast: Nero had to be at Metaurus in time to surprise Hasdrubal, then back in his own camp in Apulia before Hannibal had noticed what was going on; his march apparently caused some panic in Rome, which were suddenly bereft of a major army between itself and Hannibal. Still, the return march seems, by my count, to be nearly 70 Roman miles a day without a day's rest in between. Staggering indeed.

Anyone up for a reenactment? :mrgreen:

Edit: Benario has one more example: "Caesar reports in BG vii. 40-41 that four legions without packs marched fifty miles within twenty-four hours, with a break of three hours" (p. 360, n. 146). I think Caesar actually says that they marched twenty-three miles out, rested for three hours in the night, and returned before sunrise. Again, there were special circumstances.

Do we have any comparative evidence from pre-industrial infantry armies, or 19th century armies in terrain where they could not rely on a railroad?